Is the future of Windows Media Center with Windows Home Server?
With all the bad news around Windows Media Center this week, many enthusiasts are wondering about the future of Media Center. To say that the past few years have had a few disappointments is an understatement, especially when you think back to the way CableCARD support was implemented and how poorly the Extenders have been supported. Although things look pretty grim for our preferred DVR platform, we're optimistic that things are actually about to get really good in the next year thanks to Windows 7 and some unannounced features and products. Part of the reason we think this is because over the years we've been watching Microsoft develop products that have taken years to catch on and gain dominance. But lets be honest, we're not on the inside and most of what we think will happen is based on rumors and conjecture. With that being said, we've convinced ourselves that the future of Media Center, and the key to wider adoption that we think it deserves, is with Windows Home Server.
At first it might seem like a stretch to connect the future of Windows Media Center (WMC) with Windows Home Server (WHS), but hear us out. To understand this line of thought, first you have to look to the past failures of WMC and the trends in the PC marketplace. The original HTPC idea was that people wanted to connect a PC to their HDTV to access more content, but in reality only uber geeks are actually able to achieve the desired results. So Microsoft shifted gears and developed the Extender model which put a CE device at each TV with the real brains of the operation on a PC hidden away back in an office -- where PCs belong. This seemed like a great idea, that was until people stopped buying regular PCs and started buying laptops. The fact is that most people these days don't even own a regular desktop, instead opting for a more versatile portable. So what good is a version of Windows that can record TV, if you take the computer with you when your shows are on? Again, real enthusiasts don't care, they'll just buy both. But for the rest, this is where Windows Home Server comes in.
Windows Home Server has become one of the best laptop companion accessories available today. It makes it drop dead simple to backup all your computers -- both individual files and the entire system -- gives you an easy-to-use centralized repository for all your media and even remote access capabilities. The amazing thing is that the product is able to do all of this for a relatively low cost of about $500. We believe that the next version of WHS will also let you add tuner support and will not only let you record your shows and watch live TV on an Extender, but it will also let you watch TV on your Windows 7 laptop.
If you're already a WHS fan, at this point you are asking, "then why hasn't Microsoft done this already?" That answer is actually pretty obvious if you know that current version of WHS is built on Windows 2003 Server. It was released in the Fall of 2007, about five months before Windows Server 2008 and about a year after Windows Vista. Obviously there wasn't any point in including the older Media Center code in WHS, and with Server 2008 still off in the future, it couldn't use Vista's Media Center code either (Vista and Server 2008 share the same code base).
Since the release of WHS there have been a few updates that shows that Microsoft is already working in this direction. Most notably was Power Pack 2 which included a Media Center connector (pictured above) that made it really easy to access all the media on the WHS from within WMC -- this was possible before, but required some manual configuration including a few registry entries. The other trend out of Redmond that points us in this direction is the new BDA driver architecture. This allows hardware manufactures to develop their own hardware with less interaction from Microsoft and is kind of a standard like NDIS is for network adapters. Yet another indicator is the support of UPnP based tuners, as well as the "Shared TV" features of Windows 7. All of this combined with a little less DRM on CableCARD recordings and native satellite support starts to make this picture very clear to us.

Here's how it might work. You'll go into a big box store and buy a Windows Home Server with a few terabytes of storage for around $500 and bring it home. It won't include any tuners, but will have plenty of USB ports. Anyone who wants to watch TV on their PC will grab a USB tuner of their choice, which will (hopefully) include; ATSC, NTSC, CableCARD, DISH Network and DirecTV. Anyone who already has an Xbox 360 will be prompted during the WHS setup that they can connect the two devices together to watch TV. The 360 will work as an Extender for Media Center, much like it will on Windows 7 today -- this requires almost none of the complicated setup of a traditional HTPC. Using Live Mesh you'll be able to schedule recordings from anywhere and play them back on any Windows 7 computer on the network -- or even over the internet if you have your LiveID linked up. Who knows, you might even be able to watch the recordings on the rumored Zune HD by syncing it or streaming via Wifi. Now you should be wondering about Live TV on your laptop, because why not? No way to know for sure, but we believe the WHS will create a tuner pool of all the tuners you installed and expose these tuners to the network via UPnP. Then when you setup WMC on your laptop, it'll detect those tuners on the network and make them available for live TV or even local recordings. The WHS will manage the tuners to ensure there is a tuner available to record your favorite shows.

This product fits the laptop lifestyle and will be especially useful if you already own an Xbox 360, but the benefits don't stop there. Because WHS could only support tuners that use BDA drivers and the plug-in architecture of WHS is more limited than a PC the machine should be very stable. It should also use relatively low power compared to a regular PC. This combination could provide a very versatile and dependable DVR platform.
If any of this does come true, it'll be awhile. With Windows 7 due this fall, the earliest we'd expect any announcements from Microsoft about WHSv2 would be at CES, and then who knows how long before it's actually released. The other key question is cost. No matter how much the actual WHS sells for, if the tuners are too much it's all for naught. Currently CableCARD tuners for the PC retail at $300, which is way, way too much. If this price gets closer to $100, then we could see where this model could really compete head to head with the likes of TiVo in the DVR space. Sure there is still more up front cost, but the lack of service fees combined with the additional utility (backups, etc) and versatility, could make this a popular product.
At first it might seem like a stretch to connect the future of Windows Media Center (WMC) with Windows Home Server (WHS), but hear us out. To understand this line of thought, first you have to look to the past failures of WMC and the trends in the PC marketplace. The original HTPC idea was that people wanted to connect a PC to their HDTV to access more content, but in reality only uber geeks are actually able to achieve the desired results. So Microsoft shifted gears and developed the Extender model which put a CE device at each TV with the real brains of the operation on a PC hidden away back in an office -- where PCs belong. This seemed like a great idea, that was until people stopped buying regular PCs and started buying laptops. The fact is that most people these days don't even own a regular desktop, instead opting for a more versatile portable. So what good is a version of Windows that can record TV, if you take the computer with you when your shows are on? Again, real enthusiasts don't care, they'll just buy both. But for the rest, this is where Windows Home Server comes in.
Windows Home Server has become one of the best laptop companion accessories available today. It makes it drop dead simple to backup all your computers -- both individual files and the entire system -- gives you an easy-to-use centralized repository for all your media and even remote access capabilities. The amazing thing is that the product is able to do all of this for a relatively low cost of about $500. We believe that the next version of WHS will also let you add tuner support and will not only let you record your shows and watch live TV on an Extender, but it will also let you watch TV on your Windows 7 laptop.
If you're already a WHS fan, at this point you are asking, "then why hasn't Microsoft done this already?" That answer is actually pretty obvious if you know that current version of WHS is built on Windows 2003 Server. It was released in the Fall of 2007, about five months before Windows Server 2008 and about a year after Windows Vista. Obviously there wasn't any point in including the older Media Center code in WHS, and with Server 2008 still off in the future, it couldn't use Vista's Media Center code either (Vista and Server 2008 share the same code base).
Since the release of WHS there have been a few updates that shows that Microsoft is already working in this direction. Most notably was Power Pack 2 which included a Media Center connector (pictured above) that made it really easy to access all the media on the WHS from within WMC -- this was possible before, but required some manual configuration including a few registry entries. The other trend out of Redmond that points us in this direction is the new BDA driver architecture. This allows hardware manufactures to develop their own hardware with less interaction from Microsoft and is kind of a standard like NDIS is for network adapters. Yet another indicator is the support of UPnP based tuners, as well as the "Shared TV" features of Windows 7. All of this combined with a little less DRM on CableCARD recordings and native satellite support starts to make this picture very clear to us.

Here's how it might work. You'll go into a big box store and buy a Windows Home Server with a few terabytes of storage for around $500 and bring it home. It won't include any tuners, but will have plenty of USB ports. Anyone who wants to watch TV on their PC will grab a USB tuner of their choice, which will (hopefully) include; ATSC, NTSC, CableCARD, DISH Network and DirecTV. Anyone who already has an Xbox 360 will be prompted during the WHS setup that they can connect the two devices together to watch TV. The 360 will work as an Extender for Media Center, much like it will on Windows 7 today -- this requires almost none of the complicated setup of a traditional HTPC. Using Live Mesh you'll be able to schedule recordings from anywhere and play them back on any Windows 7 computer on the network -- or even over the internet if you have your LiveID linked up. Who knows, you might even be able to watch the recordings on the rumored Zune HD by syncing it or streaming via Wifi. Now you should be wondering about Live TV on your laptop, because why not? No way to know for sure, but we believe the WHS will create a tuner pool of all the tuners you installed and expose these tuners to the network via UPnP. Then when you setup WMC on your laptop, it'll detect those tuners on the network and make them available for live TV or even local recordings. The WHS will manage the tuners to ensure there is a tuner available to record your favorite shows.

This product fits the laptop lifestyle and will be especially useful if you already own an Xbox 360, but the benefits don't stop there. Because WHS could only support tuners that use BDA drivers and the plug-in architecture of WHS is more limited than a PC the machine should be very stable. It should also use relatively low power compared to a regular PC. This combination could provide a very versatile and dependable DVR platform.
If any of this does come true, it'll be awhile. With Windows 7 due this fall, the earliest we'd expect any announcements from Microsoft about WHSv2 would be at CES, and then who knows how long before it's actually released. The other key question is cost. No matter how much the actual WHS sells for, if the tuners are too much it's all for naught. Currently CableCARD tuners for the PC retail at $300, which is way, way too much. If this price gets closer to $100, then we could see where this model could really compete head to head with the likes of TiVo in the DVR space. Sure there is still more up front cost, but the lack of service fees combined with the additional utility (backups, etc) and versatility, could make this a popular product.


























Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
aaron @ May 22nd 2009 2:10PM
I really really really hope so.
FNG @ May 22nd 2009 2:23PM
Ben, since you joined us Media Center heads a while back, you have been writing a ton of great articles on MC. As someone who has been using MC since XP and the TV pack since the day it was leaked, I really hope all you said does come true. The stability of a WHS MC would be very welcomed.
FNG @ May 22nd 2009 2:24PM
oops. That WASN"T supposed to be a reply. And this time it wasn't the comment systems fault :)
Rick Winkler @ May 22nd 2009 2:24PM
I like the way SageTV does things. A centralized recording server and clients/extenders at each of the TVs. If MS does something like that, then it will give many of the other competitors a run for their money.
bdav @ May 23rd 2009 7:01AM
Heard of the media center extender?
ohpleaseno @ May 22nd 2009 2:34PM
All of this would be perfect. You've said it multiple times Ben that the biggest problem though is that nobody has wired ethernet behind their TV and to leave it up to people using a wireless N setup would have too many variables to cause dissatisfaction with the user experience. Dropped network signals during video playback kills the WAF.
"Why can't we just watch this off the of the antennae hooked up to the TV like we used to". "Sure honey, but hand me a pencil first so I can stab my eyeballs out with a pencil."
normychas @ May 22nd 2009 2:36PM
From the perspective of a Tivo User i salivate at this possibilities outlined in this article. This is absolutely everything I am looking for. I have tried the Sage TV and MCE thing and the inherent problem is that as nice as all of these GUI's are they run on a windows computer. My absolute #1 issue is stability. I need something that absolutely positively will not crash. My power went out 3 times yesterday and my tivo still booted back on to record the tv i needed. I am not saying that an HTPC cant be taught to do this but i have heard Ben himself say that he spent a good month doing crazy stuff to his HTPC to get it to play nice. Stability Stability Stability. Beyond that i wonder whether the appliance based system Ben talks about would leave DVRS MS toolbox com skip features out in the cold. But this is extremely promising and i am excited to see what comes out of this prediction.
f00 @ May 23rd 2009 1:09AM
I don't mean to sound snarky, but If you're worried about stability and ability to flawlessly handle a loss of power, why don't you have your HTPC connected to a UPS?
Alareth @ May 23rd 2009 1:34PM
My last 3 pc's had a bios option to power on and reboot after power loss in the bios settings.
It actually annoyed me a few times because I would turn off the PC and there would be a power outage while I was out causing it to boot as soon as the power came back on.
normychas @ May 23rd 2009 3:32PM
perhaps i chose the wrong example with regard to the power cutting out i was just using this as an example of something that wouldnt come configured correctly out of the box. What i meant with my original post is that i have never found windows to be reliable enough to run a tivo like device on. I connected my tivo up and literally dont have to worry about it restarting or blue screening. Im not saying that a windows based system cant do this im just saying that i agree the media center and sage ui and functionality are superior but the absolute drop dead stability of a device that only does one thing really really well keeps me on tivo despite the limitations. I will jump on the mce bandwagon when windows proves it can handle an on all the time type solution flawlessly or at least in a more stable manner.
mda3333 @ May 22nd 2009 2:56PM
I used WHS connected to three VMC pc's. Using WHS "My Movies 2"
One of the best setups ever.
All pc's sharing movies and recorded HDTV.
While still being backuped incase of failures.
Looking forward to making the W7 jump.
Brent @ May 22nd 2009 2:55PM
This would definitely be a no-brainer for MS and I hope they do it. Ideally WHS should have worked with MC from the beginning - better yet, MC should work on any PC as a media server.
The primary two things that keep me from using Windows MediaCenter are as follows:
1. No true server/client architecture. In the scenario speculated on above I guess if you owned the newest version of WHS, you could put XBox 360's or DLInk DSM750's at each TV to accomplish this. Currently though SageTV, BeyondTV, GBPVR or MediaPortal are the only ones that do this right. Another concern is the lack of viable extenders for MediaCenter - I guess those might come after W7 comes out though.
2. No native support of archived dvds or blu-rays or other non-MS file formats on extenders & XBOX 360 without transcoding. I watch and scratch my head at the lengths MC users go through to get this to work. Again, SageTV, BeyondTV, GBPVR, MediaPortal, Meedios and XBMC all do this the right way.
There are other things, but those are the big ones. Microsoft needs to make MediaCenter a platform that is important to them as a company and stop making decisions about it that treat it like a low-class media player for the PC. Ben, the things you mention in this post are big steps in that direction, but they aren't enough for me yet at least.
Video Master 2 @ May 22nd 2009 2:58PM
I'm not sure why anybody in this day and age would use something as archaic as Windows or Windows Media Center. Apple products including the iPhone have left companies such as MS in the dust.
Brent @ May 22nd 2009 3:04PM
Sorry but that comment qualifies you as either the most uninformed commenter of the day or the most blinded. Either way you obviously have never used a Home Theater PC...
Juan C. Zorrilla @ May 22nd 2009 4:47PM
OK. Why don't you amuse us by telling us how in the world the iPhone has anything to do with this discussion. We're talking about a DVR, which Apple does not do (El Gato us an option but that's third party and not as good). So quit trolling!
David S @ May 22nd 2009 4:33PM
Someone seems to be confusing a cell phone with a home network. First time I've seen that on Engadget.
David S @ May 22nd 2009 3:07PM
Yet we're still waiting for all these beautiful things to happen. Chances are, I'm afraid we'll be awaiting forever, and all of those features will have to work before WMC on WHS can really take off.
If I were a betting man, I'd think someone will get a decent media streamer with wide codec support, solid UI, and multiple commercial streaming options (Hulu, NetFlix, etc) before MS gets sat/cablecard support for MCE.
Oknarf @ May 22nd 2009 3:16PM
Actually most of what you describe is already available via Win7 (beta), media center extenders and 360 or other pc's running Win 7. Granted the cablecard portion is an engineered fiasco which is done purposely by the cable co's.
My current setup has a big box, "home server" running 7 beta with a few TB of space that holds all of our media and records all TV. The other tv's access live TV, recorded programming and music via extenders. With Win 7 when you setup Media Center and your HomeGroup the recorded TV folders are shared and can be accessed via other PCs running Win 7. It really is a great solution.
The only snafu at this point is integration of cablecards. The tuners are too pricey, and you can't buy a Digital Tuner approved PC with Win 7 until Fall. Their is absolutely no reason why digital cable tuners should cost $300.
AndyS @ May 22nd 2009 4:26PM
Just running a big PC with Win 7 MC is not the same thing as having a server with a storage pool and centralized media management. I also run a main Win 7 MC box to record OTA and QAM HD TV, but the added functionality of the WHS backups and easy and secure remote access to all of your media is a whole other thing on top of that.
I hope what Ben describes comes true. My fear is that so far MS has shown very little in the way of full and consistent integration of the ehome functionality with other media groups within MS. Management just doesn't seem to understand the potential they are so close to delivering.
ohpleaseno @ May 22nd 2009 5:35PM
@AndyS especially because they seem to want to market WHS as the appliance that can provide the backbone to your whole life. The ability to deliver on the Media Center side is so close. If I ever get the time, money and patience, I would love to have a whole home automation system that could do security, hvac and all that jazz. That seems like the logical next couple of steps that WHS could provide.
vypergts @ May 22nd 2009 3:17PM
I'm anxious to see what's lurking behind the "Vail"...
nick @ May 22nd 2009 3:34PM
I've had a couple of media center systems, and while it's great, I don't believe MIcrosoft markets it well. It's almost positioned as if it were the top tier version of Windows, when it really isn't. It's basically just media features. I'd much rather they include it with Windows (instead of have what-- 5 different versions) or simply sell it as an add-on that you can download over the internet. Also, I was greatly disappointed about it's inability to join a domain, which I thought was a major shortcoming if you wanted to use the system in business. Perhaps that is corrected now, but when I last tried it, required a registry hack.
I've said this time and time again, but it's too bad Microsoft doesn't simply sell one version of Windows for home, business, or media, and simply let you extend it.
Jeremy W @ May 22nd 2009 6:00PM
Media Center is included with Vista Home Premium and Ultimate, which are the only OSes that come on home computers capable of running Media Center. It will also be included in the equivalent versions on 7.
pluckyhd @ May 22nd 2009 3:37PM
It is still going to be too lacking (no native dvd,blu ray to extenders and the looks of it no extenders besides the loud as crap xbox 360. If they go to a "softsled" solution that will be better but I still don't want a pc in everyroom just to playback blu ray and dvd.
It has always been interesting to me that sage supports WHS and media center does not
kevon27 @ May 22nd 2009 3:49PM
I really have to make this comment (and yes, I'm prepared to have this comment become low ranked).
Why are we complicating such a simple thing, meaning, watching TV?
MCE, Cable cards, drm's, media servers... come on. It's only TV.
Back in the days before VCR's, you missed a show, you just missed a show.
Now we have DVR's. Great, you can pause tv, rewind tv and have an easier time recording programs. Why do we need to go beyond that?
It's only TV. Ain't nothing good on the tube these days anyway. Why spend time and money when you can just use the plain old dvr from the cable or sat.
Who's that anal to worry about: user interface not looking like mce, and so what if a recording or two gets screwed up.
It's only TV. It does not need to be this complicated people.
okay.. low rank away.
Brent @ May 22nd 2009 4:09PM
Actually I think you have a point there. Ag least for some.
I'll try to stab away at those "why make TV this complicated" questions:
1. I skip commercials except for the times I watch live events such as sports.
2. I watch shows when I want to - and not when the networks want me to.
3. It's not just TV we use this for. Movies (DVDs Blu-Ray etc), Music (again control over what I listen to versus radio stations), photos etc.
If you just want the same old TV tube thats fine - HTPCs aren't the product for you. But if you want more and more control then that is your answer.
Zingerhill @ May 22nd 2009 4:19PM
I stopped using Media Center and just went to using the Xbox Dashboard. I found Media Center was too sluggish (using an X2 6400 on Xbox extenders). Since I only use pictures, videos and music, Media Center is really just eye candy for me. The Dashboard is much faster to react. My concern with Media Center on my WHS is that it might be even slower. I love my MediaSmart Server, but it doesn't have much horsepower.
The Fuzz 53 @ May 22nd 2009 4:20PM
I'm going to go ahead and say the ones that will cripple these dreams are going to be the content providers, aka Comcast, Verizon, Directv, etc.
Jeremy W @ May 22nd 2009 6:02PM
The content providers don't give a flying crap what you do with the stuff they're providing. It's the content PRODUCERS that want to cripple everything.
AndyS @ May 22nd 2009 4:32PM
Thanks for the column, Ben. I think it's a great vision and I hope it comes true. But I'm wondering if it's coming too slow.
I think MS is taking way too long to put it together at this point, and by the time they ever get around to delivering this media utopia I suspect the way we consume media might very well have moved on. We are seemingly on the edge of the shift to true on demand content from the providers. People are demanding it, just like they did with music. Piracy will eventually push them to realize that to truly capture their revenue streams they will have to innovate and give us in effect Hulu/Netflix everywhere and everwhen we want to consume the content.
Maybe 7MC/WHS-MC will evolve along with this and provide IP on demand content. It will be interesting to see.
Peter F @ May 22nd 2009 4:40PM
Sounds like a great idea, but I'm hanging onto my cablecard tuners. I'm forced to use the extender model for playing back DRM'd recordings. Lame!
ohpleaseno @ May 22nd 2009 5:32PM
If Microsoft could pull off a Sage STB with WMC skinning (yeah, I'm a Sage fanboy, but even with the STV updates you can do, WMC still looks smoother) and Squeezebox's audio system with their snazzy ipod like remote, I'd be in heaven.
Jeremy W @ May 22nd 2009 6:01PM
The content providers don't give a flying crap what you do with the stuff they're providing. It's the content PRODUCERS that want to cripple everything.
Jeremy W @ May 22nd 2009 6:03PM
This was supposed to be a reply to The Fuzz 53 above, POS comment system decided it wasn't.
dmccall @ May 22nd 2009 7:05PM
Ben, thanks so much for thinking outside of the box. I follow what you are proposing, and it all makes sense except for one thing: WAF. I still don't know how my wife will watch Live TV in the kitchen, and how we watch TV in the bedroom, because the XBox360 does not cut it in that area. They still have to come out with some type of extender in order for people to take the whole-house plunge.
I suppose I am kind of using my VMC computer as a central data storage unit. The think that I really like about it over a 360, is that I can whip out my DiNovo Mino keyboard and bring up Rhapsody, ABC.com, Hulu, or whatever in the den. With an extender in that room I am confined to the world of media center. I don't conSIDER my self an uber-geek :)
Curbnoise @ May 27th 2009 8:38AM
Sounds good. If you could come up with a USB tuner based on Ceton Corp's mythical tuner, one would be enough because with an M Card it can record up to 6 channels simultaneously.
I hope this comes to pass!
skareiva @ May 22nd 2009 7:45PM
I'll preface this by saying I've been running WHS for over 2 years, since back in the beta release days. I also had a HP tx1219 tablet laptop running Vista Home Premium (WMC included).
My WHS has been a solid, solitary machine that has done just what I've asked -- run constantly on an old computer, using old spare parts I just couldn't bare to get rid of. And adding additional storage without too much of a fuss (there have been problems) I also pushed it's limits by adding a Hauppauge PVR-250 TV tuner card I yanked from my old Shuttle XPC. So mine was backing up files from the tablet, storing photos, music, documents, DVD rips and TV shows, as well as recording them.
WMC on the Vista tablet pulled from the shares I designated, streaming DivX files and DVD rips wirelessly when it was hooked up to my TV. When it decided to work, which was few and far between. Wireless hiccups compounded the issue.
I pined for the day when WHS and WMC would come in one package, saving me from the hunt for manual configuring and registry editing (that others posted on the WHS forums) that made things more useful. Using my TV tuner card to its fullest and just consolidating everything in one location -- at the TV.
But that's the thing with M$ products, it never works right the first time out of the box in the most useful fashion. You fight and teach it like a child to bend it to your will, and it still defies you.
That's why Bill Gate's 10' Windows interface for TV never, ever worked until the Xbox 360. It's specifically geared for TVs, and has network/extender capabilities. And that's gotten better instead of worse. But I digress....
After a fit of rage, when the tablet and Vista finally pushed me beyond my patience level, I beat the tablet to death with my bare hands. Then went out and bought a MacBook.
WHS is still whirring upstairs, although I'm in the midst of tearing it down. It serves my media, etc., to my MacBook just fine and dandy. But a huge, hulking ATX computer with 11 HD bays no longer holds my fancy.
That M$ has been slow/sluggish to advance the product (except by allowing users to develop add-ons) means that by the time WHS V2 rolls around, people probably couldn't care less.
UNLESS they add WMC to the mix.
skareiva @ May 27th 2009 10:27AM
I'd like to add what was ultimately the point to my post; WMC never worked very well running on top of Vista on my tablet laptop. It locked up searching watched folders, content from the internet, etc. The tablet had above average specs and a Vista score of 3.0, so one would expect it could handle what was being loaded on it.
Not the case.
And unless you are a Media Center enthusiast, building a system that could handle running WMC on top of WHS, consumer versions will be barely powerful enough to run both at the same time and you'll wind up dumping out of WMC just as often as I did in Vista.
In other words, Microsoft and consumer computer producers like HP will wind up shooting themselves in the foot attempting this combination.
DustoMan @ May 22nd 2009 8:01PM
This would be really really awesome. What you describe is the dream I want Media Center and WHS to one day be. However, I don't think the premium TV industry would be game for such a concept.
Griffon @ May 22nd 2009 11:22PM
"Is the future of Windows Media Center with Windows Home Server?"
Not if they don't start supporting everything to the extenders or a softsled solution. The WHS can and should be locked in the garage and forgotten to do it's magic. The fact that it won't server the 360 as a MCE blad is dumb but I rather keep the system requirement low for WHS and not have to deal with the high CPU usage stuff like capturing streams via cable card or OTA. Choices would be nice though.
Cliff @ May 23rd 2009 8:10AM
That is misinformation. Recording Digital TV requires little or no cpu usage.
Analog TV without a hardware encoder had high cpu usage, but digital tv comes as a straight file and doesn't need to be encoded. The CPU usage comes with playing it back unless you have the right graphics hardware combined with the right decoders. HDTV playback has much larger hardware requirements than SDTV, but recording is much less.
Griffon @ May 23rd 2009 3:31AM
It's sadly worth pointing out that direct tv killed their MCE integration project. Dish is MIA, and cable cards, well are the suffering under the crippling over sight of Cable labs (seriously, why is cables labs mission in life to cripple any and all market innovation that crosses their path?), though I guess it's pretty easy with some new tools to hack your bios to work. still that is a lot of cash for a shaky home setup. WHS has the awesome power of being to be stuff installed on almost any old back and work great.
Griffon @ May 22nd 2009 11:33PM
It's sadly worth pointing out that direct tv killed their MCE integration project. Dish is MIA, and cable cards, well are the suffering under the crippling over sight of Cable labs (seriously, why is cables labs mission in life to cripple any and all market innovation that crosses their path?), though I guess it's pretty easy with some new tools to hack your bios to work. still that is a lot of cash for a shaky home setup. WHS has the awesome power of being to be stuff installed on almost any old back and work great.
I would love this scenario to be true or even possible but none, and mean NONE, of the IP owners, sat providers, cable companies or anyone else want to give the consumers this kind of easy choice of single solution many provider solutions. MS has sadly shown they have no interest in giving people what they want and any time the look like the might he IP folks come skipping any promising MS if she just will put out a little for them and hold off on all that regular guy stuff then the future will be grand. Bang bye bye mr consumer.
tvdude @ May 22nd 2009 11:38PM
I've done this lots of ways over the last few 5 years. First I ran a windows server with an htpc at my tv running beyond tv and doing the recording. I then moved to a windows server with the tunner card and beyond tv doing the recordings and a laptop hooked with to my tv for playback. I've finally settled on what I think it the best setup. I'm recording on the server using beyond tv and I'm using a hacked apple tv running xbmc for playback. This setup works flawlessly and allows my wife to feel like she is in control.
ChiWax @ May 23rd 2009 2:04AM
Everything Ben says sounds awesome. All of those things can be done and MS can do it. Let's say they went ahead and made Ben's dreams come true. Even if that happened the ball would be dropped in the marketing. I love Media Center, the extenders, the XBOX 360 and the Windows OS. What I hate is the lack of an eco-system. MS by default is the only company that could bring us a "connected home scenario". They just can't seem to do it. Every last thing MS is involved in "kinda" gets us "almost" there....no joke...Q
Notung @ May 23rd 2009 4:34AM
First, Ben
Your setup seems a bit overkill for 2009. And this is a real understatement...
MSFT had an opportunity to control this market years ago, and it let it go because of it had to stick to its own monster architecture. You'll understand that.
Today, we nerds, know that under 200 bucks you'll have NAS hard drives filled with DLNA, uPnP, automated backups (via software), some of them even have torrent clients, and for the love of your TV, you could buy small renderers, that "like" to take DLNA, uPnP, support for ALL media codecs you'll imagine, and what's more important, dedicated (maybe not fancy) interfaces, that boot right on into its duty in seconds, and work to its sole purpose, enjoy media on your TV. Did I mention that this devices have access to online free services natively... man, some of them even browse internet thru webkits. Did I also mention that those devices cost also under 200?
Why do you need a whole operating system to boot next to your TV?, why don't MSFT allowed its customers boot directly to MCE? Your are telling me Extenders? LOL, you are killing me... thank God extender manufacturers learned that a 200-300$ device just to extend another machine would not sell
So, there are options today for MSFT, but it is a 90º perpendicular departure from what you state. They should have learned a lot from the whole XBMC movement with the original XBOX (enough time ago to do the strategic thinking), but hey!, nobody is perfect
You talk backups and DVR... ok with backups (available also with the alternative setup), and DVR... I'll give you a few year window, then BROADCAST will be dead
For the others that think like you, take a LACIE NAS, and AppleTV, hack it (otherwise useless Apple crap), install the XBMC or Boxee, of if you prefer buy a cheap multimedia hard drive and you are ready to go. If you like a PC hw because you are that monster truck lover, do it, but you can buy for example an ASUS EEE Box (the one with dedicated GPU), and you can do the trick with both XBMC/Boxee and MCE. After a few months, get back to us and tell us what do you prefer
I still buy into this MSFT things because I really like them, but there is no question they are still not getting it right around the TV
AndyS @ May 23rd 2009 7:53AM
While your setup will work, setting up NAS's and bitttorrent clients and XBMC just doesn't have that WAF that you can get with what MS is getting closer and closer to with ehome/WHS.
For the uber geek, there are plenty of ways to accomplish this stuff. The mainstream play is a super-Tivo that you plug in and start loading up shows, pics, etc. That's what Ben's getting at. Whether he's right about MS and they do it before they run out of time with serially broadcast TV, we'll just have to see.
Vinylfreak @ May 23rd 2009 5:23AM
Ben,
Great Post!!
I for one, am anxiously awaiting the latest version of WHS.
I am hoping M$ has been listening to the rafts of complaints of lack of Media Center integration within WHS.
I think the next year / year and a half should prove very interesting and exciting for 7MC and WHS.
Keep up the good work!
Tim
hoocchh @ May 23rd 2009 6:18AM
What you describe is what everybody in the community wants, and i think it will come because there are so damn much rumors. Plus, i don't think it would be THAT difficult to do.
do you think it will take till CES for an announcement????
i don't know, maybe we'll get some news on june 5th:
http://usingwindowshomeserver.com/2009/03/11/windows-home-server-the-next-version-webcast/
as pp2 is already out, ..........
the hope dies last :-D
bdav @ May 23rd 2009 7:09AM
I thought the extenders had just stopped being produced? Doesn't that signify that this is a little too late?
I've been burnt before with XP media center which seemed like the biggest network / resource hog ever.... not sure I have the balls to try running several PCs off a low power device such as a WHS. If only there was a way of pulling recordings off my Sky+ every so often and having those piped to UPnP clients, that would make me happy.