Moxi HD DVR initial impressions
Reviewing a DVR isn't like reviewing a Blu-ray player or the latest HDTV -- at least not when it is something with a totally different user experience like the new Moxi DVR -- to do it right, it takes time, you have to spend some your days and nights with it watching all your favorite shows. But rather than keep our initial impressions of the new Moxi HD DVR all boxed up while we run it through the paces, we figured we'd share 'em with you to hold you over while you wait for the full details. First off we'd like to set some expectations though. If you are even thinking your provider's DVR compares to this, then think again, it just doesn't. The fact is that none of the providers care about your DVR experience and all do as little as possible -- what do you expect for basically free? The real context to read these impressions with is "how does it compare to TiVo or Windows Media Center?"
Good
Ugly
Obviously out of the gate there are more bad than good, but that doesn't mean that in the end the good can't out weigh the bad. At this point though, it's hard to say how much of these are initial setup annoyances that won't be a big deal once we get accustomed to how the box works. But right now it's really hard to say if the really good looking interface will be enough to overcome the seemingly annoying usability issues. The other thing we'd really like to point out is that this device has only been on the market for a few months and that there has already been one pretty big software update, so it wouldn't surprise us if many of these complaints weren't addressed in short order. Who knows they might even be resolved before our full review is published.
Gallery: Unboxing the Moxi HD DVR
Good
- User interface looks great in HD, including the animated transitions and translucences.
- Resolution settings are appreciated, including pass-through (720p is output as 720p, 1080i as 1080i, etc)
- Skip is adjustable 30 seconds, 3 mins, 5 mins etc.
- Setup was easy, appreciate the fact that we didn't have to re-run a "guided setup" to add the CableCARD.
- Sound effects are configurable (high, med, low, mute).
- Online scheduling does real time conflict resolution, nice -- but it did show up in both places and never went away on the TV.
- Moxi LED on the front is configurable, you can even turn it off.
- The website makes it easy to schedule and even delete recordings.
- Changing priorities is painless.
- You can disable the backlight on the remote to save batteries.
- Recording buffer builds while you are watching recorded TV.
- Hitting record while watching Live TV also records buffer.
- There are dual live buffers.
- No guide button on the remote, Moxi button takes you to last menu you were at.
- No clear all or select all in channel list edit screen, and the selected item doesn't change to the next one when you change one. So it took a long time to clear over 1000 useless FiOS TV channels (music foreign languages).
- Can't edit channel numbers to make channel 10, 10, instead of 620.
- Channel logos are nice, but when there's no channel logo it should show the number instead of a square, the generic square makes it impossible to identify the station.
- No grid guide option (list only shows 3 shows, when there is room for like 6 or 7).
- Dolby Digital output wasn't on by default.
- Channels don't change fast -- not slow either.
- UI is usually snappy, but does lag at times like when entering text to search.
- Conflict resolution is confusing, would make more sense just to ask what show you wanted to record.
- Two tuners is almost never enough.
- There seems to be no way to set recording defaults.
- Recording something is a multi-button affair and the record button doesn't work if you are in certain menus.
- The back and next button doesn't work like you'd think it would (not talking about the skip fwd and replay).
- Moxi online scheduling doesn't pull your custom channel list.
- Grid on website has lots of white space and should list more than 2 hours of programming.
- Moxi.com is slow.
- Search results on Moxi.com lists duplicates, so if a show is on every day, it'll show up 7 times.
- Can't edit series recording settings on website.
- No way to setup a keyword series recording.
- In some ways the UI seems like the intention was to add additional clicks.
- Lists are all backwards to every other guide in the world, so 1 is at the bottom, 10 is at the top.
- Not possible to go back and see what was on.
- On the remote there are letters on the number buttons, but they can't be used when entering text.
- No skip to tick like TiVo.
Ugly
- Recording defaults are useless, every single recording had to be edited. For example "keep" is set to 2 days instead of "til space is needed"!
- Hitting stop while watching recorded TV takes you to live TV? What?
- Not easy to tell why a show won't record from the guide. So in other words, if there is a series for The Big Bang Theory, but it doesn't have an icon indicating it is set to record, (speaking of which, the icon is a pie chart, how does that make sense?). There should be an icon to indicate you have a series recording. Basically you have to figure it out yourself. The context menus don't even change, so "record series is still an option."
- No HD indicator icon next to shows!
Obviously out of the gate there are more bad than good, but that doesn't mean that in the end the good can't out weigh the bad. At this point though, it's hard to say how much of these are initial setup annoyances that won't be a big deal once we get accustomed to how the box works. But right now it's really hard to say if the really good looking interface will be enough to overcome the seemingly annoying usability issues. The other thing we'd really like to point out is that this device has only been on the market for a few months and that there has already been one pretty big software update, so it wouldn't surprise us if many of these complaints weren't addressed in short order. Who knows they might even be resolved before our full review is published.
























Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Jamus @ Apr 21st 2009 12:17PM
One important thing missing from article.... Price? If I remember a little about this one it is more expensive than most, but you never pay a monthly fee?
musky @ Apr 21st 2009 1:53PM
Prices change so worrying about them in a usability review does add much. Currently it is about $800 more than a TiVo HD with lifetime and less than a TiVo HD XL with lifetime.
Richard @ Apr 21st 2009 12:22PM
Hope Moxi can fix the issues... looks like a greta product.
Jason @ Apr 21st 2009 12:55PM
So it sounds like once you get beyond the pretty UI, there really isn't much worth getting excited about with this box. The Motorola box running Aptiv Passport that I rent from the cable company does most of what this thing does. And although it's $12/month, when it breaks, or a new model comes out with a bigger hard drive or some new features, I can get someone to come out and swap it out within a matter of days. And you still cant do carrier VOD on these boxes, correct?
Justin N. @ Apr 21st 2009 12:59PM
That's correct, you can't do carrier VOD over CableCARD - the MOXI software /does/ have support for VOD built-in, though, as my Charter-supplied Moxi box let me receive and enjoy all manner of VOD content, and even sorted it leagues better than Charter's own boxes did. If CableLabs would quit being so stingy and paranoid with the specs, I'd put my money on Moxi supporting VOD before TiVo.
Justin N. @ Apr 21st 2009 12:56PM
Actually, one cable provider /did/ give a damn about user experience, and now it's facing bankruptcy: Charter. Charter actually pioneered the Moxi boxes before Digeo struck out on their own, having invested a significant amount of cash into Digeo's R&D. The Motorola hardware the Moxi software was installed on had a history of failure, however, and people would steal the boxes - Charter eventually stopped taking orders for them, only replacing the boxes currently out there.
I loved my Moxi box, but a few things Engadget mentions seem off. When I had my box, the golden "HD" letters were next to every show title I had recorded or was in the guide, usually with a Golden Bar to signify it at first glance. The generic box thing is a problem that has been there from the start, though, but you'd be surprised how quickly you get used to it.
The channel listing (bottom to top) seems odd to me - I'm almost positive my Charter Moxi box did it the normal way, but it's also possible it may be a setting or how Verizon guide data is received (If it's via Moxi, that's /really/ strange, but if it's via the CableCARDs, that's Verizon being stupid). As for Dolby Digital, that's a common thing - they're going for lowest-common-denominator out of the box, which is TV Audio (Stereo). Being able to tick/untick supported resolutions was a nice feature, since the box scaled content better than my Westinghouse LCD at the time.
Compared to the Cable Company DVR, the Moxi Box beat the living crap out of it (I frequently uttered "I miss my Moxi" when my final one died and Charter only had generic DVRs left), while it also manages to do a good number on TiVo. Neither are perfect, but you can't beat free (no subscription with Moxi).
THizzle7XU @ Apr 21st 2009 1:13PM
"The fact is that none of the providers care about your DVR experience and all do as little as possible -- what do you expect for basically free?"
Free? I'd like to know who is getting free DVR after the promo period for TW/Comcast/etc. Last time I checked it's $8 for a digital box plus $9 for DVR service a month! And that's per DVR box!
$200 a year for DVR is not free at all. This thing should pay for itself in about 2 years (assuming it's around the $400 or so price point).
THizzle7XU @ Apr 23rd 2009 4:16PM
OK, read an old post. It's $800. So...4 years. Still doable.
bkdtv @ Apr 21st 2009 1:16PM
Ben,
My understanding is that the default "keep 2 days" setting is the equivalent of TiVo's "keep until space is needed" option. In other words, "keep 2 days" means that the recording is protected for 48 hours (as on TiVo), after which it becomes "keep until space is needed."
bkdtv @ Apr 21st 2009 1:23PM
"One important thing missing from article.... Price? If I remember a little about this one it is more expensive than most, but you never pay a monthly fee?"
The Moxi includes a lifetime subscription in the purchase price. TiVo charges $399 for a lifetime subscription. The actual price of both units without fees is similar. TiVo just gives you the option of buying the box for about 1/4 the price with fees.
In order of cost:
(1) TivoHD with 160GB drive = $250 @ Amazon, plus $399 for lifetime subscription = $650
(1TB internal drive upgrades $100; 1TB external drive upgrade adds $165)
(2) Moxi with 500GB drive = $799 with lifetime subscription included
(3) TivoHD XL with 1000GB drive = $480 @ Amazon, plus $399 for lifetime subscription = $879
All three units support 1TB external drives.
bkdtv @ Apr 21st 2009 1:36PM
Ben,
One clear advantage you might want to note is the buffer time. The Moxi offers a 1.5 hour buffer per HD channel, for a 3.0 hour total HD buffer.
TiVo offers a 30 minute HD buffer per HD channel. That is perfectly reasonable for the standard TivoHD model with a 160Gb drive, but it makes no sense for a TivoHD XL with a 1TB drive. And it certainly makes no sense on a TiVo with a 1TB external drive.
Moxi certainly has some disadvantages...the most obvious being the inability to autorecord based on search. That means you can't setup a single recording for your favorite sports team; you can't setup a single recording for new HD movies in a particular genre; and you can't setup a single recording to grab new series premieres and pilots.
Loban @ Apr 21st 2009 2:15PM
"Hitting stop while watching recorded TV takes you to live TV? What?"
Umm, what do you want it to do? That's what my Comcast DVR does. If you want it to pause the program, press pause, not stop. Stop means you're done watching, you want to STOP, that's the point. Pause means you're not done, you're just pausing the action temporarily.
Ben @ Apr 21st 2009 2:18PM
Loban,
I suppose my real complaint was that there is no way to stop the video on this thing. Here is a very common scenario where this would be a really, really bad idea.
You're recording two of your favorite shows while enjoying a previously recorded program. You finish the previously recorded show and hit stop, instantly you are now watching the revealing cliffhanger of your favorite show that is recording, and thus ruining the surprise. Now since you are recording two shows at once, there is almost no way to prevent you from seeing a clip you don't want to see.
I mean come on, this is basic DVR stuff.
Loban @ Apr 21st 2009 2:29PM
Again I pose the question:
Umm, what do you want it to do?
When you hit stop, it should stop, where it goes from there is up for debate I suppose. The most logical place to take you is live TV.
Ben @ Apr 21st 2009 2:31PM
It seems pretty obvious, I want the video to STOP. I know crazy right, hit the stop button and have the video stop.
I mean the video preview window can be useful at times, but ultimately I want the ability to turn it off and stop wasting valuable screen real estate for video I'm either not interested in at all, or even worse, video that would ruin my overall TV experience.
joel @ Apr 21st 2009 2:33PM
Um, go to the menu? Pretty simple fix. Cable company DVRs suck for this reason alone.
davevans @ Apr 21st 2009 2:34PM
How about returning you to the recording info (recording details) screen instead of live tv?
bkdtv @ Apr 21st 2009 2:56PM
"I suppose my real complaint was that there is no way to stop the video on this thing. Here is a very common scenario where this would be a really, really bad idea."
This is a rather significant oversight on Moxi's part. If you like to watch sports, and record sporting events on a time delay to skip commercials...pressing stop will take you right to liveTV, revealing the current score before you've started to watch the recording. Contrast that to the TivoHD, where hitting the equivalent of stop takes you back to the program information screen and/or recorded list (no liveTV video window).
IMO, any video window should only display the current progam. If you are watching live TV, show liveTV in the video window. If you are watching a recording, show the recording in the video window. But don't show a liveTV window just because the user has exited a recording, and certainly don't show the liveTV feed of a recording-in-progress unless the user has opted to watch that liveTV channel.
Loban @ Apr 21st 2009 2:42PM
"It seems pretty obvious, I want the video to STOP. I know crazy right, hit the stop button and have the video stop."
I'll agree that kicking you back to live TV is kind of dumb, but wanting the video to "stop" doesn't offer a lot of explanation, I hope you're not a technical writer. Just wanting the video to stop is what pause does, unless by stop you mean exit the video entirely and go somewhere else like a menu. What does "stop" mean to you? I like davevans' suggestion the best.
Ben @ Apr 21st 2009 2:42PM
I would prefer if there was a full screen menu, but would settle for a black box. At this point there is no use in the stop button as there is already a live TV button to take you to live tv.
Loban @ Apr 21st 2009 2:52PM
Agreed, a stop button is rather useless on modern equipment. It's a relic of the VHS days when "stop" literally stopped the tape from moving and "pause" paused the image allowing you to unpause it and resume the movie. I'm sure they were fundamentally different in terms of what the hardware did back then. These days the functionality of the stop button can do all sorts of things, it's not nearly as straightforward as the pause button.
missileMike @ Apr 21st 2009 3:17PM
Ben, I still agree with Loban: what do you want the DVR to do when you press the stop button, other than stopping the current program from playing? As a reference, my Series 3 Tivo doesn't have a stop button but when I reach the end of a recorded program Tivo asks me if i want to delete the program or keep it. Once I have made my selection, it dumps me back to my Now Playing page. I think you are looking for the Moxi to act in a similar manner?
Ben @ Apr 21st 2009 3:21PM
The way TiVo does it would be good, but Moxi doesn't have any full screen menus. So the regular menu with a black box where the video goes would be better than nothing.
IseWise @ Apr 21st 2009 7:28PM
I do agree with davevans about how if you press "Stop" while watching a recorded show it should return you to the Recorded TV list like it does in Media Center and a Tivo, but to say that you pressed "Stop" in the middle of a recorded show you were playing back while two other shows are being recorded and you happen to see a spoiler and blame that on the Moxi is really silly to me. How often would that actually happen? That sounds like a 1 in a million chance occurrence. It also sounds like one of those 1st world country problems that you talked about on the podcast a while ago.
However I do think that if you press "Stop" on recorded show that you should be sent the recorded TV menu.
Dan @ Apr 21st 2009 3:05PM
Great list. Love the concise format, "just sum it all up for me" kind of presentation.
For $800, I'd expect this mudder-hucker to have 2TB and to have breakfast waiting for me in the morning when I wake up.
This think will be $499 by the end of the year.... or Moxi'll be "tits up" by that time.
For that money, I can buy a powerful, small form factor PC plus Windows Media Center, and roll my own.
Sorry Moxi, you picked the wrong time to roll out a boutique appliance, the public is shopping at Wal Mart these days, not Tiffany.
Moman @ Apr 21st 2009 3:41PM
One thing no one also talks about is Tivo supports multi-room viewing and tivo-to-go... those are a must for me.
Mo
Griffon @ Apr 21st 2009 4:00PM
That uh... that has less usability then my POS DirectTV DVR... scary what almost a 1K dosn't get you these days.
Luke @ Apr 21st 2009 9:10PM
Ben,
As a user of the lates Moxi 3012 cable version, I agree with the stop button returning you to live TV to be a bit annoying. But regarding the not being able to see more then 3 upcoming shows comment, the space bellow is used for the current program description, which I think is allowed to be up to 256 characters (can anyone verify that?), so they couldnt expand 3 more upcoming shows into that area. Plus, to view more shows all you have to do is scroll down in the upcoming shows to view the upcoming days schedules for that network. If you are beta testing hopefully Digeo will take your recommendations into consideration. But here is a question regarding the "Great Stop Debate", why wouldnt you just pause the video?
cypherx @ Apr 21st 2009 6:45PM
I just got a piece of snail mail from Moxi inviting me to a 30 day risk free trial.
Might take them up on it...
Pretty disappointed that when a channel has no logo, there's no telling what channel that is! They should at least put generic text or numbers in it's place.
Also disappointed that there's no guide key or grid guide. I guess you'll get used to it. After you get to play a bit, I'll be interested in hearing if the crossbar stile navigation is really the way to go.
Snaffoo55 @ Apr 22nd 2009 11:41AM
I had a Moxi with adelphia and it was awesome. Wish the cable companies would offer it again.
The stop button is used to stop a recording. You might be in the middle of a recording and need to finish it later, hence using the stop button. I have used a couple of other DVRs through TW and the stop button works the same for all of them and will show live TV if your DVR has the viewing window.
mattack @ Apr 21st 2009 10:07PM
Bad:
There seems to be no way to set recording defaults.
Do you mean to set recording quality? obviously for the digital channels, it is recording the actual signal directly, with no transfer. (IMHO, I actually wish one of these devices *would* let me record at a different quality, for space reasons.)
Speaking of analog, you didn't even mention the fact that you need an extra "analog adapter" to get analog channels at all.
BTW, I'm not meaning to sound very negative. I'm *glad* that there is a competitor that seems to come *somewhere* close to Tivo... and I say that as a 4 time purchaser of Tivos (all lifetime subscription.. well, two were transferred to new Tivos during the short time offers).
Carl Z @ Apr 23rd 2009 11:07AM
I got a MOXI two days ago:
PROS:
WAY better interface and experience. No comparison. The review from Engadget is off in some points. For example, YES there is an INFO buttom. If you press INFO twice.
CONS
The free software you get so you can play NETFLIX in it works only in PC. I own a MAC,
and since Paul Allen is behind MOXI, I really doubt there will be the necessary support for MAC or IPHONE management.
This means that the chances that I will be still using the xbox 360 to play Netflix are still high.
You will love the Moxi. Many complain about the price tag. I have been paying pay $15.97 per month for a horrible SA HD DVR box for the last three years. This is $575 already.
They are replacing it with something newer, since they started in some markets already. and guess what the new box, that still looks like a VCR, horrible interface with slight disc capacity increase.
Absolutely, in some years DVR will be obsoletes for the people that want complete integration and their PC in the living room, but until then I will have saved some hundreds of dollars from my rental fees.
Nate @ Apr 28th 2009 7:27AM
I pretty much swear by my Moxi box from Charter; the main one I have in the living room held out for almost four years (got it in July 2005) before finally giving out. Coincidentally on the night I was taking the plunge into HD. Thankfully I have it pretty much drilled into everyone I deal with at Charter that I will not accept the Motorola garbage DVR which is the 'our way or the highway' default for unlucky Charter and Comcast customers (hey Macrovision, thanks for buying TV Guide. Now can you make DVR software that's more modern than a Nintendo, please?). They gave me a new Moxi and with a 320GB external hard drive added on, I can record everything I desire. Since Charter also offers Moxi programming via their website, it's so perfect for me to just pop on a PC or my phone to catch something I forgot to record when I was home.
But I am tempted to buy this because of Charter's $20 DVR fee. The VOD absence gives me pause though, and I want to wait for a price drop. Since I'm used to Moxi's DVR on Charter I pretty much can handle what's wrong with the box and have learned to work with it; for instance for recording sports, you just plan everything out in one swoop and go with that for two weeks.
Also some of the quirks with the programming guide are on purpose. Moxi is doing all they can to avoid giving any money at all to TV Guide/Gemstar/Macrovision, which forces users of their EPG listings to pay large royalties in order to use their listings in the way the TV gods intended (they've patented in the EPG world the classic listings grid you see in newspaper listings, which is why you see that free ad for TV Guide on the Tivo listings; they had to eventually pay TV Guide to have their scheduling interface the way it is). So Moxi made an end around it by placing the listings backwards from normal in a non-grid interface which depends more on searching through the listings than finding programs in a grid-and-highlight way, plus it helps make you memorize scheduling grids and soon you know 'OK, NCIS is on Tuesdays at 7pm'. It took me a year to get used to it, but when you do, you don't miss the grids. You get a feeling though that when that godforsaken patent finally expires, Moxi will modify to allow grids finally. For now, it's an evil that helps Digeo avoid having to price a box higher in order to help pay the rights bill on "I Love New York" reruns for the TV Guide Channel.
Charter did dumb down their version of the box by disallowing media sharing and games, so I would get it for the ability to do things like watch YT vids on a Moxi and listen to my music on the computer on the TV. I think that they've done a great job on cable box UI and I really hope that they become a great competitor to Tivo.
drm is a sale KILLer @ Jul 28th 2009 3:15AM
Moxi apparently cannot be bothered to offer MPEG-4 streaming of any flavor: xvid, MKV, mp4
..that’s a deal killer.. on the fly transcoding to mpeg-2 with TVersity would get old REALLY quickly at $800 ... even with quad core oozing power and wired ethernet
RoadRunner STB channel changing was Sloooowww.... fios non-dvr STB is 'instant'... I would not be happy 'upgrading' to a slower channel changing experience
Lee @ Jun 22nd 2009 5:41PM
I had the ReplayTV 3000 series- the model that is now about 10 years old. The user interface on that box was fantastic. Moxi should have simply used a ReplayTV-like interface as the starting point, and gone from there.
I read this review interested in buying a Moxi, but I have less-technical users in my house that may get frustrated. That's too bad. I'd love to see Moxi come up with a statement that the UI has been significantly redesigned, and have an interactive web demo of the product. That would convince me to buy one if I liked it.