Time Warner Cable lays out broadband capping plans, says $150 for "unlimited" use
In a move seemingly designed to further our frustrations with broadband providers, Time Warner Cable has soft-announced an "unlimited" package once its new data caps go into place... for an affordable $150 monthly charge. Responding to criticism over the company's plans to start capping usage and charging for overages, Landel Hobbs clarified the provider's stance, letting users know that the capping would be limited to a $75 ceiling, thus (when paired with its top tier plan) would provide "virtually unlimited" usage. Virtually unlimited. Here's a rundown of what the COO proposes:- A limited package for "light users" at 1GB / monthly, 768KB down / 128KB up, with overage charges of $2 / GB / month.
- Road Runner Lite, Basic, Standard, and Turbo packages at 10GB / 20GB / 40GB / and 60GB caps, respectively, and overage charges at $1 / GB / month.
- A big daddy, 100GB Turbo package at $75 / month with overage fees of $1 / GB, which, when coupled with that magic threshold of $75 in charges, becomes the "unlimited" plan.
We only have two questions, guys. First, how will you let end users know they're hitting caps? Right now there's no centralized solution for monitoring bandwidth. Even cell phones show minutes used, so will you give us the infrastructure for broadband monitoring? Secondly -- instead of giving users a "virtually" unlimited package, why not just sell an unlimited package at $150 a month? The impression we get is that you want to leave the door open for aggressive users, and that your capping of capping charges might be a moving target in the right situation.
[Via eWeek]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
St. Clair @ Apr 10th 2009 10:41AM
I am a TimeWarner Cable customer and if they bring this to New York, I fully intend to launch a boycott of their services. For people like myself who work in Film Production we have to transfer massive amounts of video sometimes and this would really hurt folk who work independent. To have the audacity to gouge its consumers with the way the economy is at the moment is just sickening.
Brad Clarke @ Apr 10th 2009 10:51AM
I could not agree more, I edit massive amounts of HD video, and it is a must to be able to upload them to my webserver and distribute accordingly, not to mention the fact that online games and downloading game demos on the playstation network. I Currently have road runner turbo, and if they put a cap on I have absolutely no problem canceling them, I have been a subscriber to road runner for 10 years now, and a few months ago i drooped time warners cable package because of lack of HD channels, and made the switch to directv. I will have no problem what so ever to switch to Verizon Fios internet if this cap is applied to albany, ny.
NIUHuskie @ Apr 10th 2009 11:03AM
St. Clair, a boycott was my first thought too, but unfortunately I think this is just the tip of the iceberg. I'm betting that once TWC rolls this out we'll see announcements from Comcast or AT&T stating that they're going to do the same thing. Eventually they'll all be charging for "unlimited" plans and we won't have any alternative. These companies are starting to realize that they've got us by the coax. So many people are so entrenched on the internet that they know they can charge more and people will pay it. Our only hope will be for the government to look into price fixing/collusion between the companies and that'll take years.
Spiza @ Apr 10th 2009 11:18AM
If they are going to do this, they should incorporate a "free" night time downloading like the cell phone companies have done as well. This would speed up their day time connections for everyone, and people can set up downloads/uploads to occur at night.
St. Clair @ Apr 10th 2009 11:19AM
NIUHuskie, unlike a number of these other ISPs and cable ops TimeWarner is a major conglomerate. If you strategically hit all of TimeWarner's assets like Warner Bros., Turner Broadcasting, and Time Inc, they would most definitely pay attention. Also write a letter to your congressman not just concerning them, but any other company trying to gouge us right now. As a people, Americans are hurting financially and we cannot stand by and let any company drag us further down than we already are.
Spiza @ Apr 10th 2009 1:11PM
Yes, cry to your congressman. The nanny state is alive.
kcmurphy88 @ Apr 10th 2009 1:21PM
As a 3Mb DSL user who was considering a faster TWC account for Netflix streaming, I gotta say this is a showstopper. Guess I'll have to wait for fiber.
Pretty sure this kind of thing will crater the video streaming market for the time being. I wonder how much Warner's interest in Blu-ray is behind this.
kcmurphy88 @ Apr 10th 2009 1:24PM
Spiza--
Considering that cable doesn't have all that many business accounts, what makes you think nighttime is a quiet period for them? I'd think their heavy period is 5pm - midnight.
scyber @ Apr 10th 2009 1:48PM
@kcmurphy88
I was recently in Australia on business where download caps are the norm for the ISPs. They had a time period where downloads did not count against your cap. There the "unlimited" period was around 8am-12 noon during the week (not sure what the weekend times were).
If the US cable companies have an unlimited period, it would probably be similar to the one above. When most people are at work and/or at school.
Miguel @ Apr 10th 2009 3:31PM
@St. Clair
Time Warner and Time Warner Cable have split. Turner, Warner Brothers, HBO, etc, have nothing to do with Time Warner Cable anymore.
GhostDoggy @ Apr 10th 2009 10:45AM
TWC needs to get out of the Internet Services business as its obvious they cannot afford to be in it. The people that make these kinds of decisions are align with those that cuased this recession.
Rob Madden @ Apr 10th 2009 11:03AM
The average persion will nevfer be able to afford the $150 for unlimited usage. Why can't we be like japan no caps on the internet. I hope the FCC steps in and stops time Warner from doing this with thier new thing about everyone should have acess to broadband internet. Schools can't pay for that thet can barely pay for the activites they do have like sports. They wont shell out $150 a month to Time Warner for the school to have unlimted internet access.
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-289900A1.pdf
GhostDoggy @ Apr 11th 2009 8:20AM
Part of the problem is that cable operators are not Federally regulated. They pushed this down to the states, and they in turned pushed it onto the counties. Its a county-level franchise agreement. If your county doesn't care about you--except for your property taxes, of course--then you should fight the battle on the county level first.
Phaze @ Apr 10th 2009 11:03AM
This is just a money grab by TWC. I hope everyone cancels their account. TWC doesn't deserve their customers business.
Andrew @ Apr 12th 2009 3:26PM
I know I will!
DEEZNUTZ @ Apr 10th 2009 11:08AM
Well I hope you're all prepared to sacrifice and put your money back in your wallets and away from TWC if this comes to your area. TWC will get away with it unless folks boycott their asses in droves, sending them a clear message right to their bottom line.
I really hope Verizon capitalizes on this and prioritizes rolling out their services in the exact areas that TWC is pulling this crap so that they can easily swipe up all that marketshare away from TW.
BOYCOTT the shit out of TWC.
PROD @ Apr 10th 2009 11:14AM
Head over to http://www.stopthecap.com - you'll be amazed at what you find. TWC deserves nothing but a major backlash at this...
Frankinla @ Apr 10th 2009 11:19AM
maybe it's time to go back to Speakeasy http://speakeasy.net/home/compare/... naked dsl, excellent service (in American!!!!!). I originally left three years ago because they were a bit pricey, but if all this crap goes down, this is gonna seam like a deal all over again.
Jeremy Riga @ Apr 10th 2009 11:24AM
You know what? F*CK these people. I am SO sick and tired of companies tell me how and when I can use the services I pay for. This is essentially like saying that they know people are beginning to get their content elsewhere, but have no intention of adjusting their business model to meet a changing demand - instead they are tied to what they normally take in in fees from customers for cable and internet and are refusing to create new and innovative plans that fit different demand models.
This on top of them policing what I download is OUT OF THE QUESTION. I will NEVER use Time Warner services again.
F*CK YOU TIME WARNER.
Eric @ Apr 10th 2009 11:31AM
I will cancel my account with Time Warner if they do this, and go with AT&T's slower DSL or some alternative that's available. Period. I will not pay such extortion amounts!
I'm not an abuser of bandwidth. I don't do P2P. I download the occasional video from Netflix via my TiVO HD. I downloaded the weekly build of Photoshop CS4 when it was in beta which was about 4 gigs a month. That's hardly abuse or a clogging up of their pipes. I do spend some time playing ETQW, which I'm sure uses up some bandwidth. But they can drop dead if they think they're going to squeeze that much money out of me for such miniscule bandwitdh usage!
This is vastly more money than AT&T and others charge for the amount of data transmitted. By a factor of 1000!
So Time Warner will either accept that a few people use a lot, or the government will step in and stop them. They've already had a shot sent across their bow by someone in Congress. Let's hope he wasn't just blowing smoke.
Frankinla @ Apr 10th 2009 11:47AM
why wait? do it now, just because they are "THINKING" about doing it.
theBlindRef @ Apr 10th 2009 11:32AM
I live in the Greensboro area, one of the lucky test markets. And I must say up until now, I have been fairly happy with the service. We (the family) are looking at the Samsung 1600 to stream Netflicks movies, how many movies can I view before I'm over my quota? I have begun to look at other alternatives.
S4Rs @ Apr 10th 2009 11:33AM
Thank god i have fios. They just gave me a free upgrade to the 20/5 connection because I got the Extreme HD package. You would think that since ever single other ISP is throttling traffic in one way or another, and putting up bandwidth caps, thats its only a matter of time for verizon. I sure hope not. Why on earth would you offer a 20 or 50Mb connections and then put a bandwidth cap on it.
everyone should have fiber to the home, and then ISPs can reverse bid on you for service. Thats capitalism at its finest.
Mythgarr @ Apr 10th 2009 1:04PM
The answer here is because of the high bandwidth. 99% of the time most consumers won't be using anywhere near the cap - regular browsing would be fine with a 5Mbps connection. When you start using VoIP, Netflix/VOD to 2 TVs, downloading content on XBL or Steam, etc.
Of course, the local ISP that provides 40/40 Mbps Down/up over FTTP (XMission) "soft caps" at 250GB per month. If you go over by a little occasionally or a lot one month in 12, no big deal. If you consistently use more than 250GB you may get a heaping $20 surcharge - boohoo. I have no problem with reasonable bandwidth caps for exceptionally good service, but as near as I can tell TWC isn't giving anything to the customer in exchange for the caps.
Abbie Rosario @ Apr 10th 2009 11:33AM
I just hope that this last only a few days when they realize all hell is breaking lose trying to keep track of everything including the number of cancelled service calls.
t1c0 @ Apr 10th 2009 11:42AM
http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/
Enough said!
Spiza @ Apr 10th 2009 1:14PM
Yes, wait for the savior to save you.
Ordeith @ Apr 13th 2009 8:33PM
Government caused the problem. Why do you think they would be intersted in fixing it?
If anything, the currenty administration has shown itself to be against capitalism.
John @ Apr 10th 2009 11:43AM
Let's look at some numbers.
I don't have Time-Warner broadband (I have Cox), but I just measured my
bandwidth on speedtest.net and I obtained
down: 12500 kbps (small b for bits per second rather than Bytes per second)
up: 5100 kbps
Now, there are 2629800 seconds in a month (on average), so if I
saturated my line constantly at those rates, it would be theoretically
possible for me to download 4000 GB per month and upload 1600 GB per
month (big B for Bytes, I converted bits to Bytes and reduced the number
slightly for overhead).
At that usage, if I were on a Time-Warner capped connection, I would
obviously hit the price ceiling of $150/month.
For comparison, a T-1 line is symmetrical 1544 kbps, so 4 T-1 lines
would give me slightly more upstream bandwidth and significantly less
downstream bandwidth than my cable modem. A DS3 (T-3) line is 44736
kbps, so I would be using about 28% of a DS3 for download, and 11% for
upload.
Coverting from monthly volume to bandwidth, here are some average
bandwidth numbers for various caps, assuming the line is constantly
saturated:
10GB : 32 kbps
60GB : 191 kbps
100GB : 319 kbps
250GB : 797 kbps
Let's look at Time Warner's rates, guesstimating a bit since the rates
quoted in the article were not precise.
10GB, 32kbps : $25/month
60GB, 191kbps : $65/month
100GB, 319kbps : $75/month
125GB, 478kbps : $100/month ($75/month base plus 25GB at $1/GB)
175GB, 558kbps : $150/month ($75/month base plus 75GB at $1/GB)
and anything higher than 175GB hits the price ceiling of $150/month.
So, if we were to cut out the middle-man and go straight to the carriers
for a T-1 or DS3 line, how do the rates compare?
It is time consuming to get an actual rate quote from the carriers, but
I am familiar with the prices for T-1 lines and DS3 lines. They vary
widely, but the lowest prices I have ever seen are around $300/month for
a T-1 and $3000/month for a DS3 (in many areas it could be double that)
Time-Warner's 100GB / 319 kbps service is about 20% of a T-1, so if
you got 5 friends together and shared a T-1, and you were able to find
one for $300/mo, then you would be paying $60/mo for what Time-Warner
is charging $75/mo. But the intallation charges for a T-1 are usually
several thousand dollars, and you usually have to pay for the network
equipment (a lot more than you would for a cable modem).
For higher-volume customers, the comparison looks a lot different. With
my example, 5100kbps upload, that is 4 T-1 lines, so about $1200/mo
vs. $150/mo from Time Warner. Even if I shared 11% of a DS3 line with
9 friends, it would be $333 per month to get 5100kbps direct from a
carrier, versus still $150/mo from Time-Warner. And my downloads would
be more than double that 5100kbps with cable broadband.
One last set of numbers: profitability for Time-Warner (TWX) for 2004
- 2008. I like to look at return on assets (ROA) since it doesn't
complicate the picture with leverage. Here are the ROA numbers for TWX
for the last 5 years:
2004 2005 2006 2007 2008
2.5% 2.2% 5.1% 3.3% -10.8%
Even ignoring the 2008 number, the Time-Warner investors would have made
more money "investing" their cash in a bank CD or a T-Bill! So it is not
like Time-Warner is getting rich charging prices much higher than their
costs of providing service.
Frankinla @ Apr 10th 2009 11:52AM
You're making this too complicated... try speakeasy.net.... adsl2 AND they let you share... even resell, no problem.
no I'm not a speakeasy rep... just a former and possibly future customer.
Frankinla @ Apr 10th 2009 11:57AM
here's the info :
http://www.speakeasy.net/netshare/learnmore/
John @ Apr 10th 2009 12:04PM
I'm interested in numbers. What are speakeasy's numbers? What bandwidth are they selling, and at what rates?
Frankinla @ Apr 10th 2009 12:25PM
http://speakeasy.net/home/compare/
Like I said in an earlier post, it's a bit pricey, as it is basically business class service, but you can resell easily. Basically you get multiple static IP's set up a switch between the modem and multiple wifi routers, and give each router a static IP... there may be other ways to do it, but this works.
John @ Apr 10th 2009 1:28PM
Note that their upload speeds are relatively low. For example, their $190/mo plan with 15Mbps down has only 1Mbps up. This indicates to me that they are making assumptions that their customers will not all saturate their download bandwidth continuously and at the same time. In other words, speakeasy has their own leased lines to connect their customers to the Internet, but it is obvious that speakeasy does not have enough bandwidth in those lines to support all of their customers continuously and simultaneously saturating their download bandwidth. So, there is an implicit cap on the download, probably around that of the upload, if everyone tried to utilize 100% of their allotted bandwidth. If speakeasy buys 1 DS3 for every 45 Onelink ADSL2 customers, then that could be saturated by 3 customers at 15Mbps continuous, or by 40 customers averaging 500kbps continuously and 5 customers averaging 5000kbps continuously.
In the latter case, the 500kbps customers are heavily subsidizing the 5000kbps customers.
Frankinla @ Apr 10th 2009 1:55PM
whateverdude... it's an option, I've used it and it's damn good, and it's legal and even encouraged to share. For most people, it's all about the down speed, anyways.
mitchelljd @ Apr 10th 2009 11:50AM
i am going to cancel my TWC modem if they do this to me.
FIOS is coming to my neighborhood in LA. and i would not like to support a company so intent on screwing its customers over.
if they are so intent on bandwidth hogs, let them start blocking illegal p2p networks. i'd much rather that than limits on hd programming i get via itunes, streaming via netflix or amazon.
kauai tom @ Apr 10th 2009 12:00PM
heh the best is yet to come. its obvious that we the customers are not the target but rather the content providers. wait until these scumbags hook up with TWC thats when the real fun starts (free downloads from espn for example, an extra $20 a month to stream netflix, extra $10 from vanage but the calls dont count towards your limit ect...). when its all said and done im sure the sheeple will be happy that their rates have only gone up 50% but all other fees effectively raised their internet fees by multiples of 100.
this is really bad news.
Jonsson @ Apr 10th 2009 12:13PM
Didn't anyone see this coming? Caps and expensive charging will come from all of the providers sooner or later. Unfortunately all the halleluja sayers of "digital downoloads will take over" seems to overlook this uncomfortable fact.
Thank good for physical media :-)
Aaron Smith @ Apr 10th 2009 12:19PM
The day they do this is the day I cancel my account, I won't even consider staying with TWC.
gamedude360 @ Apr 10th 2009 12:55PM
this almost makes cox's $90 unlimited no capped service with 50mb down 5 up seem worth it
lee @ Apr 10th 2009 2:21PM
Sooooo stupid, don't they realize watching hulu downloading xbox. ps3 demos will cause us all to go over any kind of cap. I wish TWC would just stop screwing us. I'm getting FIOS if they try to pull this BS in NYC
mewoks @ Apr 10th 2009 2:26PM
I canceled Road Runner because $50 is too much, if you ask me.
I went with Clearwire for a "guaranteed for life" $30 unlimited plan. It's a little slower, but much better than having to pay $150 for unlimited internet.
atmuscarella @ Apr 10th 2009 2:30PM
I live in the Rochester NY area another test market. I am sure they picked it because their only competition is Frontier DSL - Time Warner owns most of the Rochester market now - no hope of FIOS and Frontier DSL has limited ability to go up against them. I started a fairly long thread over on the TiVo Community forum:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=422911
Deadite @ Apr 10th 2009 4:56PM
Stop Whining! I've had a 60 gb cap for months, and i've only gone over twice and not by much, i'm a gamer too. And i'm not the only one using the internet!
SH @ Apr 12th 2009 2:05PM
Gaming uses very little bandwidth. Downloading extra content for the games might eat some bandwidth but the actual game itself uses what a typical dialup modem can handle, although the latency for the modem makes the games unplayable.
FT @ Apr 20th 2009 2:17AM
F them ....I'm getting FIOS in May. These bastards are always looking to make an extra buck off of you. I think Time Warner has a whole depatment dedicated to figuring out new things to charge for. F Them .....F all of these ISP's if they think their going to pull this same crap.
moneymark21 @ Apr 10th 2009 10:21PM
Who is coming up with these usage plans? The average user would end up using half their quota simply updating their OS. TW is seriously out of touch with reality here.
Thankfully there are a few level headed politicians out there still going forward with bills that would put an end to this madness. http://stopthecap.com/2009/04/10/breaking-news-rep-eric-massa-d-ny-to-introduce-the-massa-broadband-internet-fairness-act/
That site has some good general information on ways to express your distaste for their new usage plans. Mainly focused on upstate NY though I believe.
Also, I'm sure there are plenty of facebook groups forming up already... here is one:
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=17521224456
Supposedly they will not be capping their business plans, but I'll be switching to another alternative before a cough up 100 bucks a month. I really can't see this turning out too well for TW in the end.
freddy paulino @ Apr 11th 2009 10:59AM
screw time warner cable everyone boycott their ass
Nick @ Apr 11th 2009 3:41AM
Why don't we all go back to the early 90s when the internet was sold by the minute!!! Wouldn't that be grand!
This country's telecommunications system is already lacking behind most of the western world, with many countries in western europe having government managed broadband at 100mbps for 30 bucks a month (with no cap, duh), why don't we let the giant broadband corporations sink us deeper into the dark ages? I see that idiot talking about the nanny state and I can almost hear the conservatives complaining about government intervention if this does come up on the floor of the senate, but the fact of the matter is that if we are to remain competitive, we can't have things like this keeping us down. These companies are natural monopolies, and thus REQUIRE government intervention in order to keep them from boning the consumer. One of President Obama's major policy positions during his tenure in the senate was one in FAVOR of network neutrality. If this comes down to it, and TWC tries this crap, I'd be surprised to see the government take more than a week to draft a law making it illegal, one which will almost certainly throw more regulations than just that at the cable companies.
Go ahead TWC, the people won't stand for this.
Mics @ Apr 11th 2009 3:54AM
Fuck Time Warner. I'm already pissed at them for other reasons. This will just add to the list. You hear me, parent company of Engadget et al??