Ask Engadget HD: HTPC or HD media streamer?
"I'm really struggling with this one. Should I spring for a full blown HTPC to record OTA shows, play back Blu-ray Discs, etc., or should I save some dough and just get a nice HD media streamer while continuing to use my lackluster cable HD DVR to record TV content? Has anyone else made this decision and been happy or remorseful with the outcome? What are some really compelling reasons to buy an HTPC over just a streamer? Save my sanity!"
You heard the man -- this one's an emergency. What things can be done with your HTPC that you'd miss out on with a simple HD media streamer? Is it worth the difference in cost? Feel free to chat it up in comments below.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
ayemac @ Mar 11th 2009 2:54PM
I have multiple DirecTV HD DVRs and, albeit not as good as DirecTivo DVRs (give me a DirecTivo HD DVR!!!), they suffice for broadcasted shows. Movies, where applicable, can also be viewed from these.
For my "HTPC" solution I deliberated and ultimately decided on a Popcorn Hour A-110.
Best. Decision. Ever.
Installed a 1 TB HDD and have never looked back.
Jon @ Mar 11th 2009 5:02PM
I love my PCH-100 .. the best decision i ever made was connecting a 250 GB tiny seagate freeagent Go! drives to it for my Bluray rips
I was having odd issues with the buffer not being long enough with .M2TS rips and 30 mins in it would stutter and no sound , so i put 10 or so recent Bluray Backups and no issues at all
I was just using my HP MediaSmart server to the PCH-100 using SMB ... it should have been fine but ? oh well
Joel @ Mar 12th 2009 1:03PM
I also have DirecTV, and just recently sold my HTPC and replaced it with a Popcorn Hour A-110. Best choice ever. I love tweaking. But the HTPC made tweaking..... not so much fun. Getting subtitles in MKVs playing fine in Vista Media Center is a thing of the past! Huzzah!
glenn s @ Mar 11th 2009 2:59PM
I am a very happy HTPC owner. Built my own, running Ubuntu Linux 8.04 and using both XBMC, Boxee, and streaming "incompatible" web content in Firefox. Only Netflix does not work natively on my system, but that is my choice to run linux. I have no problem running Netflix in XP via virtual box. I've not replaced by DVR with the HTPC yet, but you could do that. Any PC DVR has its limitations though, based on your providers content encryption.
I could go on and on, but the biggest advantage of the HTPC is its flexibility. The biggest disadvantage is maintenance.
glenn s @ Mar 11th 2009 4:28PM
Oh yeah, Harmony 880 to control the HTPC, my Yamaha receiver, and everything else in my system. A good universal remote is a must, and the harmony 880 is one of the best for under $100 if you can find a refurb deal, like I did.
I don't think that anyone has the perfect, "one box to rule them all" solution. At least not for a true enthusiast. You will most likely still need multiple sources. But with a good uni remote, they can all act as if they were one device. So, perhaps "one remote to rule them all" is more apropos.
Killersaurus @ Mar 11th 2009 2:59PM
The configurability and upgradability of an HTPC can't be matched by a media streamer. There's always going to be some obscure codec or some file that's been encoded differently that won't work on a media streamer. Of course, it's the configurability of an HTPC that's also it's downside...too many options, settings, drivers, etc to deal with. Still, I went the HTPC route for maximum compatibilty.
aggrazel @ Mar 11th 2009 3:11PM
The HTPC has become the central component of my entertainment center. It plays the DVDs, HDDVDs, Blu-Rays, Television shows recorded OTA, Hulu content, netflix content, you name it. It also plays video games, stores the itunes library for the whole house, and has 1.5 TB of storage that is shared for everyone in the house to use. Its connected to the multi-zone Onkyo receiver so with a touch of the "remote" on my iphone it'll start playing any music to any room I like in the house. Oh and you can check your email on it, if you like. All this for a box I built for around $500 with a case that makes it look like any other piece of entertainment gear.
So yeah, HTPC rules the roost. I cancelled my $70/month Dish Network bill 9 months ago and built the HTPC and haven't looked back. So technically I'm up $130! :)
Jake @ Mar 11th 2009 3:29PM
What computer components do you have?
jack @ Mar 11th 2009 4:20PM
dude...how did you build a rig with a blueray player for 500$?
WebDev511 @ Mar 11th 2009 4:22PM
HD DVD/Blu-Ray ROM drives can still be had for $100.
Jake @ Mar 11th 2009 4:36PM
Can you post all the parts you have please. Thanks.
aggrazel @ Mar 11th 2009 4:49PM
I'll try this one more time, as this is the third time I've tried saying this there's a chance it'll get posted 3 times making me look like an idiot, but I generally don't need any help with that so here goes.
System is an AMD 780G motherboard with a AMD 4850e processor. I chose that config for the low power footprint. Added in an HD 4550 fanless graphics card later (I originally built the system before the 4550 was out) which helps video output greatly, before it would have a little trouble with 1080p@60p and some games but now its fine. Have an AverMedia ATSC tuner which I picked up for next to nothing, its the hybrid card no one wants because it doesn't handle QAM signals very well but all I use it for is OTA recording. 2x750GB drives for storage. I had originally thought to configure them as RAID-1 but decided that I'd rather have more storage and less redundancy, so they're just 2 standalone drives. Have a Lite-ON BluRay HDDVD drive, yes you can get these for under $100. And a antec HTPC case that I got a great deal on.
The keyboard is the cheapo part I did, I got an active USB extension cable and ran it to my recliner. Bought a Shelf board for 6 bucks and velcroed the keyboard to the shelf board and tied a mouse to it. It works very well. I had originally intended it to be a temporary solution but it works so well its stayed around. But when we're just using the HTPC to watch movies or TV or whatever the keyboard is stowed and we just use the Vista Media Center remote.
My copy of Vista cost me $10 because I got a student copy from the university, but you can run the same setup just fine under Linux if you don't want to pay the $200 microsoft fee.
EatingPie @ Mar 11th 2009 3:20PM
I personally recommend Streaming over an HTPC, particularly because of color calibration issues. Also because you've got a PC plugged into your TV. Since I have a CRT, the static desktop image puts me in danger of burn-in, something I'm not willing to risk. But with Streaming, I don't have to!
I have a huge library of archived HD content. My setup consists of a PS3 and a MacBook Pro. For Mac streaming you can use MediaLink (which works the best of all UPNP servers I've tried) or PS3 Media Server aka PMS (which is free). The MacBook Pro streams to the PS3 over its Ethernet connection.
The only caveat is that I Ethernet directly from my Mac to my PS3, providing the PS3 an IP address via Internet Sharing. Wireless G just plain isn't fast enough to stream HD. But you want to game over Ethernet anyway, so you already have the PS3 hooked up to Ethernet via a router, right? Right? :-)
The PS3 handles almost *anything* I throw at it. That includes 50hz caps from Europe and England, in their native mpeg4 format, as well as 24fps transcodes (typically done to eliminate the 50hz helium-voice), and 60hz MPEG2 TS (the US standard). The only common format that the PS3 won't do is MKV, but those can be extracted to an M2TS pretty easily and with no loss in quality.
And if you've archived a Blu-ray .m2ts file, this will ALSO stream to the PS3. The only drawback is you don't get full resolution Dolby TrueHD via streaming (PMS uses a trick to get DTS-MA to work if you have a DTS-MA capable receiver).
I've had the PS3 since day one, literally! Originally, it totally stunk as a Media Hub. Now, however, it works absolutely great. Very robust... worth every penny I paid for it. However, if you want to save some money, the previously mentioned Popcorn Hour gets great reviews. I've never tried it, but I've only heard raves about it.
-Pie
Carl H @ Mar 11th 2009 4:45PM
While some MKVs can be transcoded to MPEGs with no loss of quality, most can't. And you can't tell me that a process involving 100% CPU for 10+ hours, with no cancel button, is "easy". Since most HD rips are in MKV format, this was the reason I stopped using my PS3 as a media hub. If Sony ever adds full MKV support to the PS3, I'll be back there in a second.
EatingPie @ Mar 11th 2009 8:08PM
Just FYI. The M2TS format does NOT mean it is mpeg2. It's simply a container -- just like MKV -- and can hold AVC, VC1, MPEG2, etc.
MKV to M2TS is basically like extracting the data out and re-arranging it slightly. Ordering, alignment, adding headers, etc. It's very quick. The programs I've used, it's something akin to a little slower, by maybe 1/3, than something like a straight copy.
It's NOT about completely changing the codec.... like going from MPEG4 to MPEG2. That is a re-encode, which involves the 10 hours (or whatever) you're talking about. It's about repackaging but KEEPING the original codec.
Lastly, I don't know where you get your HD streams, but MOST HD caps are kept in the original format, unless they involve a re-encode -- like to 720 from 1080i -- or a specific person who posts his caps is fond of a particularly container. Sure, there are a TON of MKVs out there. But there's even more TS and M2TS in my experience.
And, yes, I WILL tell you it's easy to go from one to the other. VERY EASY, in point of fact.
-Pie
Carl H @ Mar 12th 2009 11:24AM
Of course any MKV can be transcoded to an M2TS. The problem is that the PS3 can't play any M2TS. It can only play a small subset of all the formats out there. So transcoding an MKV directly over to an M2TS isn't going to help you very much if the PS3 can't play it. I ran MKV2VOB (which claims to know exactly which formats the PS3 can and can't play) on about 30 MKVs, and of those, only 1 could be transcoded with no changes. With 4-5 of them, the video could be transcoded, but the audio had to be re-encoded (took a couple of hours). For the rest of them, the video had to be re-encoded, hurting image quality and taking an entire day of 100% CPU.
EatingPie @ Mar 12th 2009 12:51PM
I use two different programs the extract MKVs (and otherwise create M2TS files). Both programs claim to create a perfectly legitimate M2TS from the exact same source, but the PS3 plays one, and not the other. So where does the problem lie? You blame the PS3. But given the number of bug reports in each program (and the inablility to play some M2TS with *other* sources like MPlayer), you have prematurely pointed the finger.
It's not necessarily the PS3's fault. It's far more likely your transcoding software. (See MPlayer issue above.)
But, yeah, the M2TS has to be in a format the PS3 supports. If your MKV contains AAC, then OF COURSE you must reencode that to DD AC3. And if you pick an unsupported video codec, OF COURSE the PS3 won't play it.
I didn't say it's a no brainer transcoding. I said it's VERY EASY (audio re-encodes are quick). You check the right settings and you're ready to go.
And if you want to play battling statistics. I've transcoded about 10-15 MKVs, and ALL OF THEM work on the PS3. Not one failure.
I certainly do have a couple of caps that the PS3 boinks on, but this is usually because the cap did something funky, like use weird PIDs for video and audio. Once again, easily fixed.
I never said the PS3 is perfect and will play everything. But the implication that it plays hardly any transcoded MKVs is totally bogus.
-Pie
Keith @ Mar 11th 2009 3:30PM
Thomas, I have both a media streamer (Popcorn Hour) and an HTPC (Vista Ultimate home built). I have an HDHomeRun to retrieve OTA HDTV signals from an indoor antenna and send to my HTPC for viewing and PVR by Vista's Windows Media Center. My other computers can also receive TV from the HDHomeRun. For shows I really care about or that family members will want to watch in various locations, I use torrents and download. Therefore, I can send the downloads to all of my machines and watch whenever and wherever I want. Once I download content from torrent sites, I copy it (using Microsoft SyncToy) to my HTPC and Popcorn Hour. Family laptop users can choose to copy (or stream from the shared directory). In general we prefer to copy -- streaming just doesn't work well with our 802.11n wireless network, and it's very annoying when the stream gets interrupted.
Overall household usage is about 10% on a 61" Samsung DLP HDTV with LED backlight connected to the HTPC, 20% on a 32" Sharp LCD HDTV connected to the Popcorn Hour, and 70% on laptops -- both in home and away.
I got fed up with the Popcorn Hour in streaming mode because it took 30+ seconds to buffer shows before they would play, shows would freeze, etc. -- purely due to distance and house construction. If you have reliable and fast networking, by all means streaming is the cheapest way to go and I know plenty of people who are happy with this solution. I installed a quiet, low wattage Samsung laptop hard drive in my Popcorn Hour (required a cheap adapter).
Overall I have not been impressed with my HTPC experience from a usability perspective. Figuring out how to get all of the components to work together was difficult and time-consuming, and about once a month I have to debug issues. Perhaps if you bought a packaged HTPC from a single vendor it might work better.
Would I do anything different? No. Something simple (Popcorn Hour) for the bedroom. Something very capable (HTPC -- also has a BluRay drive) for the living room.
It all comes down to what you want it to do.
Jon @ Mar 11th 2009 5:06PM
I wrote this above .. but " the best decision i ever made was connecting a 250 GB tiny seagate freeagent Go! drives to it for my Bluray rips oh PCH-100
I was having odd issues with the buffer not being long enough with .M2TS rips and 30 mins in it would stutter and no sound , so i put 10 or so recent Bluray Backups and no issues at all"
The FreeagentPro Go! drive are pretty cheap they go up to 500GB ,extremely portable and i know its not "streaming" but it plays back perfect w/no buffer needed ..
J. @ Mar 11th 2009 3:49PM
Although a streamer is more convenient and fits in nicely as an AV component, the flexibility of an HTPC is totally worth the compromise. Of course if you're just looking to stream standard codecs supported by streamers and pictures, an HTPC may be overkill.
xraycat @ Mar 11th 2009 3:50PM
I upgraded my HTPC this past month so I could play HD mkvs. I spent less than $300 (already had the case, PSU and DVD drive) and I love it. I was using my Xbox 360 as a media streamer but the lack of HD content that it can play (only WMV) meant I needed to go back to my HTPC.
Using Windows 7 Media Center and the MediaBrowser plugin, accessing movies and TV shows is a great experience! I can play absolutely anything without any problems. Using the CCCP and the right settings I get passthrough of all audio formats over HDMI and if I upgrade to a BluRay drive I'll get 7.1 PCM of the lossless audio as well.
Also, being in Canada there is no way to get HD into a PC in most of the western provinces, right now there is only one digital OTA station broadcasting in my city. However, it is the case that Microsoft is working with Hauppauge to allow their HD-PVR USB component capture device to work natively with W7 Media Center. Right now there is a third party that is allowing it to work with some funky work-arounds and it does work, its just not completely reliable and still means I have to keep my cable co. HD STB.
Carl H @ Mar 11th 2009 4:52PM
Everyone I know who has had an HTPC for less than a month loves it. Everyone I know who has had one for over a year hates it ;-). The problem is that the things stop working - Microsoft releases a patch, the motherboard clock battery dies, whatever - there's always something to fix. For some people that's just part of the fun. For other's life's too short.
xraycat @ Mar 11th 2009 4:58PM
I understand what you are saying but I am not unfamiliar with HTPC's. While I've only had THIS one for a month, I've had living room HTPC for at least 7 years. The biggest problems I'm seeing now is with the content, not the hardware.
mugatu @ Mar 11th 2009 3:51PM
My wife has a Macbook, I have an XPS M1210 (XP, 2GB RAM), and recently got a Macbook.
I keep a lot of stuff in a closet by the front door of my apartment. My router is a Time Capsule. I have a 1.5TB USB external, and a 750 GB USB external plugged into the Time Capsule.
My LCDs in the bedroom and living room are on opposite sides of the same wall. On the living room side, hidden behind cabinet doors connected via CAT 5e, I have 1) my pc (gigabit ethernet), and 2) PCH-A110 w/ a 1.5 TB drive. The VGA out from the PC, and the HDMI out from the PCH are both split so they go to both TVs. I have an IR system to be able to use the PCH (and my dvd player) from both rooms.
The PCH is great. I use it to play anything stored on the network, and it plays flawlessly. I use the PC for Hulu and Netflix and other web based stuff. Occassionaly, I'll fire up XBMC or use VLC with my iPhone as a remote. But I typically opt for the HDMI 1080p output of the PCH over the VGA of the PC (even though I only have a few files that are better than DVD quality).
I've used PlayOn for Hulu and Netflix from the PCH, but the quality is better when just using IE on the pc.
The plan is to get a multizone receiver with 2nd zone HDMI out, but I just haven't wanted to spend the money yet.
I'd like to figure out a way to get rid of my cable boxes completely. However, being locked into Time Warner Cable in Manhattan, I can't abandon their cable boxes if I want to watch and DVR sports. I have two HD DVR boxes, now. I've considered getting one TiVO box and transferring everything I record to the network, but I haven't fully looked at that solution. Any suggestions on that?
Zingerhill @ Mar 11th 2009 4:26PM
You can transfer shows automatically from TivoHD using a free program called kkmtg. They can automatically be transcoded as well. Unfortunately an increasing number of shows are flagged so that they cannot be transferred at all.
You might also consider running HDMI and component simultaneously to two TVs from the Tivo (assuming the TVs are reasonably close). You couldn't watch two shows at once, but you wouldn't have the copy protection issues. You could probably do the same thing with your existing DVR.
mugatu @ Mar 11th 2009 3:57PM
I forgot to say that to control the PC, i have diNovo Edge. But I rarely use that anymore. I just have TightVNC running on the PC, and use a VNC client on my iPhone or Macbook to control the PC.
Zingerhill @ Mar 11th 2009 4:01PM
For me (my wife actually) it was too hard to drop cable so I went with the TiVo HD. This is not the cheapest option at about $500 including the subscription, but it is very simple and it works. I could also drop cable at some point in the future. I added a 1GB hard drive for about $100. The Tivo streams Netflix very well also. My understanding is that if you stream on a PC you cannot get HD quality.
I don't use Hulu since it doesn't look so hot to me on an HDTV. I sometimes use You Tube via Tivo. It doesn't look good, but the clips are short. I'll probably get Blu Ray eventually, but it's not a priority for me now. I don't think BR is a reason to go HTPC-- you'd be better off getting a cheap stand alone player. You can use a program called pyTivo to transcode video to Tivo, but when I want to stream content I use an Xbox 360. If you are really into streaming content you're probably better off with a Popcorn hour or the like.
carlos @ Mar 11th 2009 4:14PM
I've got a home-built HTPC - I use it to watch downloaded content, streaming content from major networks websites, TV shows recorded via the somewhat buggy / crashy Hauppauge HD-PVR with Snapstream BeyondTV (DVR software), all on a 46" 1080P LCD (no worries about burn-in). I also use my HTPC to view my photos and home videos, and to serve MP3s for my Squeezebox Classic (without needing the big screen to navigate mp3s on iTunes).
The HTPC runs through a Denon AV-Receiver.
I have the HTPC set to go to S3 standby after 5 minutes of inactivity; currently my Harmony One remote will cause the HTPC to wake when using the Squeezebox; otherwise I have to move my wireless mouse to wake the HTPC.
It does need a bit better WAF, and a couple of improvements would help: It's my intention to use a USB-UIRT (IR receiver via USB) with the Harmony to wake the system, and auto-launch BeyondTV, but I haven't figured out just how to integrate the Harmony with the USB-UIRT and do the 2 improvements mentioned above (I think I need to use something like EventGhost to accomplish both?).
carlos @ Mar 11th 2009 4:18PM
Oh - I also use it to watch Netflix-streamed movies.
So, the upside, as is fairly obvious, is the flexibility and power. Downsides are the struggles to make this act like any other idiot-proof console, and the fact that the Hauppauge HD-PVR tends to lock up and stop encoding the HD signal (though passthrough continues to work)
glenn s @ Mar 11th 2009 4:33PM
Eventghost if you are running windows. LIRC if you are running linux. Sounds like you are on windows. I think there is a tutorial over at XBMC.org how to set up Eventghost. You might be able to modify their instructions to work with your set-up.
Rivertrance @ Mar 11th 2009 4:30PM
HTPC with the Hauppauge HD PVR for recording Premium HDTV / Movie content from my Cable Box and PS3.
It's the only real way to go.
For those of you who have a Hauppauge HD PVR... new "stable" drivers are on their way soon.
They're entering the WHQL labs tomorrow ;)
cheers, -RT
Evan @ Mar 11th 2009 5:02PM
I tried a PC with a Media Center remote control, but switched to a Popcorn Hour.
The PC can do more than a Popcorn Hour, but most of it's extra functionality (e.g. Streaming Flash video within a web browser) is outside of Media Center and is very awkward to use with the remote control. I'd have to get something like a Logitech "diNovo" to really make the PC usable, and the Logitech "diNovo" alone is as expensive as a Popcorn Hour!
Roger @ Mar 11th 2009 5:17PM
Another vote for the Popcorn Hour
In my case:
Popcorn Hour A110 + Four bay external drive enclosure + Four Samsung 1TB spinpoint drives = Media Bliss
Brian @ Mar 11th 2009 9:46PM
If you're going to get serious about a library of digital videos consider how much storage you'll need. I started with this and added a DLink DNS-323 network attached storages (NAS) device. 2x 1TB SATA drives in a RAID 1 (mirroring) configuration so if one drive failes I don't loose my entire library. I'm now looking to add another 2 TB of redundant storage. What I'm trying to get at is to use a dedicated storage device and don't bother trying to load up a HTPC with storage.
I started with an Apple TV that I modified to run Boxee so I can stream content from my LAN. I've been very happy with it. It's inexpensive, small, quiet, consumes less power than a PC (though an off button would be nice) and looks great in my living room. Generally speaking, a streamer will not be as fast a CPU as in an HTPC and will likely have trouble playing 1080p content (my Apple TV does 720p fine).
The HTPC will give you more flexibility in the software you want to run and you can put a kick-ass cpu in to handle 720p. However, this is all at the cost of more money, more noise, more power consumption and possibly not fiting in with the style of your A/V equipment.
Knightmare @ Mar 11th 2009 5:40PM
I have to agree with all of the previous comments.
HD Streamer:
An HD Streamer is a very nice PnP solution that is easy to set up and has a fairly easy learning curve. Limitations are codec support and versatility as well as product life expectancy. I have a WD HDTV unit for my TV (Toshiba 32" LCD) in the living room no network connectivity. The wife wants that NOT to be the center of attention for that room. I simply transfer the content I want to watch up there onto an usb thumb drive plug it in and go. This TV also has cable but no Comcast tuner just the TV's digital tuner. Cons for this device, it is very picky about the HDD that I plug into it. Sometimes it requires multiple reboot of the device to get it working smoothly. But for $99 this unit does exactly what I wanted for this TV.
I will put the Xbox 360 under streamer but realize that full integration requires an HTPC. I have an Xbox 360 connected to the entertainment center in the TV room (50" Sony LCD) and bedroom (STD def 27"). What an awesome device this has grown into. Natively I can access all of my content from any shared computer in the house. It plays almost all codec’s except .264 but I am able to ply WMV9 for HD. With a MS Live Gold account I can natively stream Netflix. Some will bash Netflix for "lack of content", but realize that it is still a relatively new service (online streaming) and as the demand grows with more mfg. integrating it into devices the studios will have to relax their grip and allow more content to be used. Online content and TV to be covered under HTPC.
HTPC:
Yes having an HTPC is a project and you really have to have a love for tinkering and patience for the total hose of a system. But 98% of the time my HTPC is the coolest thing since sliced bread!
I have built my own HTPC and it has Frankenstiened over 4 years from a low budget build with only parts I had laying around to a modified (Zonar sound card for HDMI) Dell Precision T3400 quad core (total overkill but 2 of them fell in my lap). I am running Vista Ultimate for the Media Center abilities. Install the CCP codec pack and you are set to go for most all video content. I have access to all music and video content that is stored on my Windows Home Server (5TB) as well as random stuff on any of the other 5 computers on the network.
Stick a $10 modem in and I get caller ID on screen.
Throw in a tuner card maybe 2 and I have a DVR and I can quit paying Comcast for the limited space DVR they rented me. Stream Hulu, YouTube, Netflix or any internet based content you want straight to the 50" TV. Go to the website of the show you are watching while you watch it. Check your email or RDP into work all from the comfort of your favorite couch or recliner.
My goal is to completely cut the cable TV cord and save myself $180 a month for the DVR and HD packages.
What I have left to do is $60 for a roof top antenna (100+ local and national digital and HD channels for free) and a couple more days tweaking my HTPC and adding some software. Most anything worth watching on DiscoveryHD/USAHD/TNTHD/ETC is being recorded and made available via Torrents and NNTP/News Groups. There are a couple of media specific Torrent software that you set and forget as it decompresses the media re encodes if necessary and transfers it to the "My TV" folder for Media Center to see (this is what I am working with right now). My News Group Software is easy to search with and can be configured to auto search and download.
Let's get back to the Xbox 360. I installed "PLAYON" server on my HTPC, now I can stream Hulu, Netflix (now you do not have to have a MS gold subscription), YouTube, and Blockbuster right to my Xbox. Using the Media Extender capabilities of the Xbox I am able to watch all of the TV that I have recorded or downloaded as well as watch live TV.
Now I can even move the HTPC out of the entertainment center and into my office!! The Wife Acceptance Factor has grown substantially as the clutter is greatly lessened and ease of use has really improved!
What would I do today knowing what I do now? Wait for Windows 7 as it will support H.264 natively. I can only speculate that if MS licensed H.264 for the PC they will also license it for the Xbox 360. Then I would truly have everything I want.
Some will instantly bash my MS choices!! I tinkered with Linux media centers also. I just was not able to get the complete package of abilities I have with this setup. I still have hardware that I am constantly testing other solutions on but as of now MS has provided me with a solution that fits my needs.
Hope this will give you some ideas to grow on! Good luck!!
Brian @ Mar 12th 2009 12:04AM
I'd go HTPC, having control and access to all of your content in one place makes an HTPC very nice. you could then even use it with something like ted (ted.nu) to handle downloading TV shows if you don't happen to record them. You basically get the most control over everything in the HTPC setup and then it's all in one box for you to be able to watch and even stream to other devices.
Richard @ Mar 11th 2009 6:46PM
Built my HTPC a year ago (Antec Fusion case, Core2Duo 2.2, 2GB RAM, Windows XP) and found all I use it for is streaming movies from a PC server in my basement. While it works very well, I recently picked up a WD TV HD Media player to test out for a relative of mine. I find the functionality of the WD TV to be just perfect if all you're looking to do is watch downloaded content. It's tiny, consume very little power and is quiet.
It doesn't have network streaming like the Popcorn Hour, but it's also less expensive. All you need to do is connect a USB hard drive to the unit. If something like the WD TV was available last year, I probably wouldn't have spent the money building a HTPC.
jake @ Mar 12th 2009 9:03AM
i had been been dealing with the same issue. i bought an ibm think centre from newegg for $114.00, upgraded the ram and have that connected to my tv. because of age i think, i couldn't get full screen playback going on my tv through my computer. i got playon media server running on my xp system streamed to my ps3 and that settles full screen playback for netflix and hulu.
your question mainly revolves on what you want to live with.
if bluray is what you want then go my route with the ps3 and connect it to an existing xp machine running playon.
if you don't care about bluray then just hook up a mac mini to your tv and be done with it.
as far as dvr functions, i don't do that. between netflix, hulu, and ota, i'm overwhelmed with options. no need to record or save anything, but that's just me.
bye the end of the year linux should support silverlight so hopefully bye the end of the year you can have a ps3 running linux on your tv and then that's it. no need for much more. cable tv is up to you. the xbox is nice also, but requires an annual fee and the add-ons that you need to compare it with a ps3 puts them both around the same price. xbox has more games though no bluray player.
i love my setup. i would not do anything different than what i have now. once netflix runs on linux i'll ditch the ibm think centre.
i did not get a windows pc with bluray player because i read to many reviews about playback issues. i have never run into a playback issue with the ps3 or heard of one.
there are a lot of options to choose from. the ps3 can bring you all your media from your computer. hooking up the ps3 with one hdmi cord was nice also. i recommend a windows xp system to go with it because they are cheap and the compatibility (playon is not compatible with a mac) issues are minor.
i spent $600.00 for my ps3, ibm thinkcentre, and necessary software and upgrades. i'm totaly happy.
ReNegade @ Mar 11th 2009 9:10PM
Stream to a PS3 using Tversity works great! Rip your DVD collection using anydvd then encode with handbrake in .mp4 using H.264 and 6 channel AAC. You get near DVD quality with 5.1 surround sound!!!! Must encode in 2 channel to stream to Xbox360 bummer. I Haven't figured out how to stream to 360 in 5.1?
Ron @ Mar 11th 2009 9:50PM
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned an AppleTV.
I have one that I use for almost all my media needs (its hacked to allow other codecs to play). I have all my DVD's including TV series ripped and tagged correctly with episode info and cover art. I keep the video at 2500kbps h264 for the video and pass the audio directly to my pioneer elite reciever to decode using optical (my receiver doesn't have hdmi). The setup looks beautiful on my 46" Bravia. Not only that but I have all my music synced to the appletv and I use it to watch movie trailers, podcasts (about 15 on a regular basis) and youtube. The screensaver is my iPhoto library which is a nice touch.
RSS feeds of torrents and automatic folder actions handle new tv episodes for me automatically so I get all the shows I watch (only about 5) automatically without me having to download them manually. The folder actions even add the new videos to itunes and sync to the appletv without me needing to do anything. I just need to go into itunes and rename the new shows about once a week to make them match up with everything else.
All my movies are in a 1.5TB drive attached to a 24" iMac in the bedroom (which also acts as my bedroom TV using frontrow). I still have a standalone bluray player in the livingroom and I use my Xbox 360 for netflix. I can even watch netflix in the bedroom through frontrow using a plugin I found that works for netflix and hulu.
I used to use various HTPC frontends with homebuilt machines. I tried Myth TV, beyond tv, mediaportal, windows media center, and Meedio (my personal favorite even though its been unsupported for quite a while). It was convenient having an all-in-one but honestly I spent more time configuring it and troubleshooting problems than I did enjoying my media. After I saw the amazing looking interface on the AppleTV and switched to that and its been so easy. Hacking it is a must to allow different media types. I never added appletvfiles, or boxee or anything. I preferred having itunes organize everything so it looks stock. Plus that allows me to have a similar experience with frontrow on the iMac in the bedroom. I dont mind having to use a separate player for blurays and my 360 for netflix since this setup works without me having to tinker with it all the time. My living room looks less cluttered since I was able to store all my DVD boxes (about 300 including tv seasons) and just keep the bluray disks out. Dont have to pay for cable either since I use torrents until I can buy the season on dvd or bluray. The RSS feeds and folder actions are a must since I dont have to remember to download anything myself. Its almost like having a tivo setup to auto-record my shows. :)
A good remote is essential. I use the Harmony 880. Passes the girlfriend test and my parents...even my kid brother and sister can use my home theater without having troubles. In case you cant tell, I am proud of my setup.
Marcelino Martins @ Mar 11th 2009 11:29PM
I made the decision to build an HTPC a few months ago and I am very happy with it. Go to this page to see my reasoning and the parts I used to build it:
http://mmartins.com/mmartins/htpc.asp
glenn s @ Mar 12th 2009 1:03AM
i posted earlier, and have now read through all the comments since. My conclusion: Whatever floats your boat!
Seriously, there really is no right or wrong answer to this. There are so many options out there today. I suggest anyone who has not taken the plunge yet should prioritize the type of content they want to watch, and buy/build the device that handles their #1 priority the best within their budget. If it handles their other needs, then great. Otherwise fill in the gap with a supplemental device.
waleed @ Mar 12th 2009 1:43AM
i've been researching this question on the net pretty much all day today and am finally stumbling onto this post and these great comments. i'd love to get any recommendations based on my particular situation:
i primarily consume recorded TV, with a occasional BT'd shows. i'm intrigued by netflix though it's not a priority.
i want to reduce the number of boxes rather than add more, and i definitely don't want to waste energy. HTPC's seem wasteful to me - not at all trimmed down to serve a specific function - and most consume much more power than a set-top box.
i think my search would be over if there was a device that combined the capabilities of my timewarner DVR (program guide and recording) with those of the PCH (browse media across the home network, low/no maintenance, polished UI). even more perfect: add support for cablecards so eventually i can ditch timewarner-issued devices completely.
ideas?
Nick @ Mar 12th 2009 9:35AM
I have a HP Slimline with Blu-Ray that I picked up for $530 hooked up via VGA to my LCD TV. I've also got 3 external hard drives connected to it. Never really got into the Tivo thing as pretty much any show I'm interested in is available on Hulu. In terms of media playback, and while I've never used a Media Streamer, the HTPC setup is hard to beat. Yeah its more expensive up front, but the ease of use (I have a program for my T-Mobile G1 that allows me to use the screen as a touchpad and the keyboard as a wireless keyboard for the PC), plug-in support, and level of functionality, I think its definitely worth the investment. Of course, I don't have a giant house with multiple "zones", so I'm sure there is a case to be made for using both. Another thing is that I never use media center. Its terribly buggy and codec support sucks. I just use KM Player for every form of media and it works flawlessly and runs light.
MPGXSVCD @ Mar 12th 2009 1:04PM
I have an HTPC with an Over the air HD capture card, netflix streaming, 7 terabytes worth of storage, over 150 Blu-rays and HD-DVDs stored as .iso files, too many DVD .isos to count, all of my family pictures and movies backed up in triplicate, and the ASUS HDAV HDMI 1.3 audio card for bitstreaming DD-THD and DTS-MA. What more would I want?
Brian @ Mar 12th 2009 1:38PM
HTPC - been there with analog cable. Too hardware intensive for HD.
What I've found to be the best single solution, barring a DVD player (PS3 for that) is definitely a TivoHD. As mentioned earlier, it has Netflix streaming, as well as Amazon Ondemand.
Not only can you do that, it of course works with your cable tv (duh, its a tivo) so it replaces that hideous cable DVR. It has a fantastic interface, and the best part is you can run Pytivo on your main PC, which is an on the fly transcoder. I watch ANY format video with this thing. MKV, AVI, Divx, MPG, it does it ALL. I don't have to switch sources, it's all in the Tivo, so its on the same remote.
My wife and I don't even watch DVDs hardly anymore. We download entire TV series ripped and then watch them at our leisure.
No need to hack the Tivo unless you want the storage local, but why bother when you can transcode on the fly and store a LOT more data in its native compressed format When transcoding, the files get BIG fast I've got a 1.5TB setup on the main PC and have tons of movies and tv shows, all at the click of the remote. Or I can watch TV.
TivoHD even lets me pull recorded content down to the PC if I want to archive it.
TIVO FTW!!
kuriti @ Mar 13th 2009 1:34PM
I am reposting this from the first question about streamers, because i have not seen a similar response and i added some more detail.
I wanted the ability to watch blue ray, surf any website (including streams from Netflix, etc), and record HD content, so to me, a long HDMI cable and a Cish network DVR seemed to be the best solution. i bought a refurbished PC from tigerdirect with dual core processor, a decent graphics card with DVI and HD compliant ($300), a blu ray optical/HD DVD drive ($100, bought separately and installed) and a 35ft DVI/HMI cable ($75). My home office is in the same room as the new HDTV ($nevermind), but i still ran the cable through the wall so it is clean and not part of the other TV components. you can get HDMI repeaters and go a long way and Ethernet solutions are getting cheaper by the hour if you want to go to another room. now i have my HDTV set up as my extended monitor where i drag and drop anything i can play on my computer with no limitations (Netflix, Hulu, blu ray, winamp, torrents, etc.). I have not even opened Windows Media Center, so i don't have to deal with their DRM crap. i didn't get a tuner because i am interested in more content than OTA can provide. So, i just got the DVR from Dish Network that plays in any room from one unit and records 50 hours of HD and can add a hard drive if i ever needed to. i have my old computer networked and i use it as a media server, but shut it off most of the time. i don't have to leave my PC on, so just the DVR is pulling watts. Despite what i have read above, other than getting the graphics card set up for dual monitors, i have not had to tweak anything. Of course i have spent untold hours in the past getting figuring out codec jargon, but that is inevitable for any solution for the foreseeable future.. i love it and spend alot less time trolling the intertubes looking for the 'best' or a better solution since i am not restricted to any formats, etc.
i personally could not figure out the value of a media streamer since you are probably running cables anyway and, so give me the raw feed i say.
thanks,
Paul @ Mar 21st 2009 12:05AM
I have both - but the HTPC I never use. It is just too much work, to much complexity. The NMT's (ie. Popcorn Hour) are simpler and cheaper.
I have an eGreat EG-M31B and it is awesome. Does everything I needed it too. For those that don't know, it is just like a popcornhour but with some more connectivety options. Nice little box . . .
Paul @ Mar 21st 2009 12:08AM
Didn't read the link instructioins . . .
http://www.egreatusa.com/
Glen @ Mar 25th 2009 2:48PM
Hi, First time poster....not sure if this is the right forum, but you guys sound like you know what you're talking about...
I have a Windows XP Laptop running TVersity, hard wired to my Apple Time Capsule, which is hard wired to my PS3.
I can't get the PS3 to recognize the Media Server and it keeps saying "UPnP: Not Available".
TVersity does recognize the PS3 (and it's IP) on Auto Discovery.
Any suggestions?
Thanks!