It's kind of amazing, really. Not even a year ago, Pioneer was busy pimping its
second-gen KURO, and by and large, everyone that
witnessed one in person came away impressed. So, if Pioneer's plasmas were so spectacular, how on Earth did we find ourselves asking if PDPs even have a future beyond 2010? Not long after the economy began to soften, LCDs began to catch up. Sure, a side-by-side test would likely show that an Elite KURO has deeper blacks than the average LCD, but as
GigaOM points out, the average consumer was beyond the point of caring. Since the beginning of this year, we've already
seen two plasma players
drop out completely, and one must wonder how long those other guys will keep holding on. Is the death of the
KURO the tipping point for plasma? We'd love to think otherwise, but our gut is leaning to "yes." What say you, dear readers?
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Chris @ Feb 26th 2009 9:52AM
I just got my 60" Kuro on Monday. I love it but I said the very same thing yesterday - with Panasonic being the only major player in plasma (that I can think of), plasma is probably on its last leg. On the other hand all of the plasma affeciandos will have to go to panasonic to get their precious plasma....maybe it will be profitable in a one-man show.
Killersaurus @ Feb 26th 2009 9:56AM
One word: too expensive.
Pioneer may have the best tech, but people aren't going to buy at an exorbitant price. ESPECIALLY in this economy. OK, put a $1000 premium on those deepest blacks, but they were asking three times as much as a Panasonic or Samsung for the same size. They could have cleaned up if they wanted to, but they wanted to be perceived as the primo-top-of-the-line manufacturer of plasmas by going for the Marantz and McIntosh crowd and look where that got them. Sad.
Doc @ Feb 26th 2009 10:05AM
Well said, I couldn't agree with you more. Put into perspective; if the average person can't tell the difference between a DVD and blu-ray, they aren't going to see the difference in picture quality (like we would), they are only going to see the price tag.
Loban @ Feb 26th 2009 10:29AM
A manufacturer producing the best and insisting on making their consumers pay for it isn't such a crazy idea. I definitely don't blame Pioneer for doing it. Ferrari does it every day. The difference is that the market for cars is way different than for TVs. Most consumers just want a TV that works, looks good enough, at a reasonable price.
I can understand your argument about KUROs. They are a little more expensive. What I don't understand is why aren't people flocking to VIERAs? They are crazy cheap these days and are just a step below a KURO for quality. I was under the impression that a free market would enable the company with the best product at a reasonable price to win. Apparently it doesn't work that way. I honestly just think it's consumer ignorance, they just don't know any better.
Plus, it doesn't help plasma that Samsung's marketing campaign is huge and ridiculous. When was the last time you saw a commercial for a VIERA or a KURO, can you even think of a single time? Plus Samsung loves to throw numbers around in their market material and consumers love numbers. Contrast ratio, refresh rates, etc. etc. Plasma doesn't need these numbers because it produces a great picture without gimmicks like 120 Hz and dynamic contrast ratio and yet these are hard quantifiable numbers that consumers can make a purchase decision based on. It's sad but in general, your average consumer is an idiot, that is why LCD is winning.
David S @ Feb 26th 2009 10:30AM
Vizio didn't exactly sell premium priced Plasmas, and the non-Elite Kuros are competitively priced with the top of the line Samsungs.
I think it came down to cool factor. LCDs are considered "cooler" than Plasmas. Maybe its due to thinness, but much of it I think is just due to brand recognition. Pioneer doesn't have the branding of a Samsung.
Loban @ Feb 26th 2009 10:02AM
Let me just say this first. I LOVE plasma and refuse to buy LCD. Thankfully I have a good VIERA, and if plasma dies eventually, hopefully it will last long enough to see LCD give way to OLED in the popularity race. I cannot CANNOT stand the viewing angle and motion issues of LCD. Plasma is as close to CRT as you're gonna get in the specs that actually matter (color reproduction, contrast ration, black levels, etc.). LCD has plasma beat in.....ummmmmm.......cabinet style I guess, and that's about it. Samsung does make good looking TVs even if they can't hope to compete with a KURO or VIERA for the actually picture quality.
That being said I think it will be very sad if plasma dies. It will basically confirm what we've known all along, the general American consumer is less concerned about quality and capability than they are about popularity and familiarity. LCD is well known, understood, and plasma myths still make the rounds on the webs and in retailers. To this day I still hear people talk about plasma having a short life and burn-in issues, even electronics salesman perpetuate these myths, that is a tragedy. This is ridiculous yet your average consumer doesn't know any better and takes these myths as truth because they just don't understand.
V Langs @ Feb 27th 2009 10:52AM
why does everyone hate simple rectangular shapes? the kuro has a beautiful minimalist bezel and looks amazing mounted.
I saw an LG the other day at best buy with a 25! (read:25!) inch lower bezel....what the hell? that's ridiculous! sure it was flow-y and fun but who the hell cares? it was a 40 in LCD inflated to about the size of a 52 in tv.
I was disgusted
Loban @ Feb 27th 2009 11:33AM
That's why I said LCD has Plasma beat for cabinet style I GUESS, emphasizing the I GUESS part, because personally I too love minimal styling. A 1 inch bezel with a matte or piano black finish (I don't mind finger prints, I clean often) with a subtle power button is all I need.
But in the past plasma had rather ugly bezels. The VIERAs from 3 years ago (I have one) were UGLY. The picture quality is superb even to this day, but man they're ugly TVs.
kaylan @ Feb 26th 2009 10:22AM
as much as i love my panny plasma 58, within my circle of family and friends, if your not a geek that reads engadgethd as a daily ritual, all you see when you see LCd is..."wow, but look how bright and colorful the picture is" shall i say 95% of american households could care less or know even lesser about gray scale and calibration??? they want a bright colorful picture, add to that the fact that most homes are bright and sunny which as we know sucks for plasmas...in fact my few family who do own plasmas have it set on DYNAMIC....it drives me nuts...but they love ittttttttttttttttttttttt.
mikeb12345 @ Feb 26th 2009 12:58PM
You hit the nail on the head here. The main reason I went for LCD is that my TV is in a room that gets lots of direct sunlight (coming right in on the TV). Even with the blinds shut, it still gets light on the TV -- and the LCD is very viewable. I don't think the same would have happened for a plasma.
Loban @ Feb 26th 2009 1:31PM
@ mikeb12345,
You are the exception to the rule. You educated yourself and based your LCD purchase decision on that knowledge. I'm fine with that. But most people do not do that. They buy LCD because they don't know any better.
Though I personally think Plasma is bright enough even in sunlight, but that's just me.
tzedekh @ Feb 26th 2009 10:23AM
I'm sorry to see Pioneer go, but frankly no matter what value they added, it didn't justify even a $1,000 premium. They just didn't want to compete. But even Panasonic seems not to get the point. Their new plasmas are only incrementally better than last year's, and they've reduced the number of lines that support 24p from two to one. That 24p implementation is probably the same sad 48 Hz as last year, and it failed. Even the Kuro's 72-Hz version was suboptimal -- 120 Hz, as on LCDs, would be the best way to support 24, 30, and 60 frames/sec (240 Hz would be overkill for plasmas).
Additional features that should be on all plasmas: Internet connectivity, four HDMI ports, swivel stand, better speakers, and better picture controls (like Samsung's), And for Pete's sake, get rid of that goofy bezel styling. Make it plain, rectangular (no ugly logo swooshes at the bottom of the bezel), and matte black (I don't find the specular reflections and fingerprints that the piano finish shows so well to be sexy).
squiggleslash @ Feb 26th 2009 10:26AM
Manufacturers will continue to use any technology as long as it sells and sells at a profit. If plasma is running into problems, it's not because consumers are consciously choosing LCD over plasma, so much as seeing the best combination of picture quality and size and price being on those sets that happen to be LCD. For the vast majority of consumers, all that matters are size, quality, price, and the fact they're both flat. That's it. They no more care whether the screen is plasma or LCD than they do whether the case is made of ABS plastic or Resin coated wood.
My guess would be manufacturers are seeing plasma is just too expensive to make compared to LCD. Hence LCD is temporarily "winning", until some other flat screen technology (OLED?) comes along that's even cheaper and better.
Reggie @ Feb 26th 2009 10:30AM
Unless Pioneer transfers it's Kuro technology to Panasonic I would say this is the end of plasma
Jtmonkey @ Feb 26th 2009 12:46PM
Their new infinite black panels supposedly are all the Pioneer tech. This years panels we'll see next month are supposed to be what pioneer's panels would have been. The saddest part is that there is no one else on the market that can match their processing. Watch a Blu-Ray concert with some strobes and a light show on a pioneer and then turn on a panasonic or ANY lcd and watch the difference. Distortion abounds.
Darren @ Feb 26th 2009 10:40AM
Loban,
I don't think I've ever read a post where I agree with virtually every syllable. It's like it came from my own keyboard.
I live in a small apartment, so my Sony HD CRT is getting me by. The temptation for a large screen is killing me though. Like you, I can't stand the awful LCD viewing angle. If you move one inch from the cross-sectional centre of an LCD screen, the picture begins to fade. Plus, I hate the cloudy back-lighting. A black LCD screen will always look blotchy.
We all know how manufacturers are trying to improve LCD technology. LED back-lighting being the latest example. But sadly, they're all just band-aids. LCD is a poor technology and not a worthy successor to CRT. That title belongs to plasma. But, maybe not for much longer.
It's not just American consumers that have the shortcomings you've mentioned. I see EXACTLY the same things said and done in Australia. I'm sure it happens universally.
I hope Sony isn't yanking our chain and is sincerely intending on bringing out large screen OLED TVs. I could live with a 46 inch.
Fingers crossed...
Lakeonaut @ Feb 26th 2009 10:40AM
I'll continue to buy plasma. I was watching a show last night on my LCD, and switched to the room with the plasma. I was struck by how much more realistic and 3 dimensional the plasma looked.
Furthermore, the the off-axis picture quality on the 2 LCDs I've owned is simply unacceptable. The eye popping brightness on my LCD is useless, because I had to crank it way down to make it comfortable to view.
Tom @ Feb 26th 2009 11:01AM
I love my Panasonic Viera 42PZ85U. I have both LCD and Plasma and my Viera blows away the LCD models. The blacks are nice, but the blurring/judder on my LCD during sporting events is really noticeable. On a plasma, when a camera pans the court or field, you see smooth, crisp motion, not a bunch of blocky images.
TRT @ Feb 26th 2009 10:52AM
Consumers buy value, not quality. A company must pump out lots of garbage in order to support gear that is top shelf. When the economy tanked, there were not enough high-end buyers or garbage buyers to support keeping the plasma lines going. You'll find that TV's will not be the only items finding Davey Jones Locker. When audiophiles demand the best and expect the prices to be reasonable, companies are put in a loss-loss situation. Blu-ray players are a perfect example. The educated consumer wants a true universal player for $100. They want blu-ray movies to cost under $15. History tells us that when that comes to past, the format will be on its last leg because there will be a new format on the horizon. So, for everyone waiting for prices to fall: Expect to be that little ole' lady scanning the shelves at Walmart looking for that $19.95 DVD/VCR combination that they waited 20 years to buy because they cost too much.....or the man that busted a cap in his TV when his local stations switched to digital. 25% of the population remains on the cutting edge of new technology. We can either pay for it or loss it. It's just that simple. Keep in mind that after one year, 65% of all PS3 owners not only were unaware the unit played blu-ray movies----they didn't even know what a blu-ray movie was. Half of all HDTV owners do not receive a HD signal right now! More than half of this countries citizens have no clue what the original Dolby CODEC was, let alone the newer ones such as DTS-HD Master and Dolby True HD. We are a very small segment of society (us audio/videophiles) and should not be surprised that companies are failing left and right. Get your Kuro Elites now or forever hold your peace!
cwnyc @ Feb 26th 2009 7:46PM
Not always true.. Consumers do not buy value or quality, but what is well marketed.. Plasma sets are cheaper than LCD with comparable sizes. And forget about 60" sets.. LCDs bigger than 52" gets prohibitively expensive.
Consumer buys quality? Consumer buys value? Not a chance! Look at how well BOSE products are selling! BOSE is very expensive for not only product manufacturing quality and parts, but also sub standard performance with comparable priced products of other makes...
You go to the big chained stores and what do they push? LCDs and BOSE... Neither one is of superior value or quality.
sixdonuts @ Feb 26th 2009 11:14AM
In my opinion the Kuro line was overpriced for the small increase in picture quality over other plasmas and display technologies. I feel my 5 year old Panasonic Professional series TH-50PHD-8UK still outperforms many newer LCD's and projection displays in certain areas. Additionally the terminal board interface has allowed my display to keep pace with new connectivity technologies. My next display will be a Panasonic 1080p 65" professional series plasma.
Gary @ Feb 26th 2009 2:48PM
I sell consumer electronics for a liviing and I deal with consumers on a day to day basis and the vast majority of them are truly uneducated about plasma's
Almost on a day to day basis, I hear that plasmas don't last as long, they burn in, they burn out. All of the misinformation that has haunted this format from day one, is still in people's heads and of course it's true if they heard it from a friend of a friend of a friend or better yet some moron on the radio or the idiots in Mount Vernon New York who have their annual guide to buying gear and constantly commit errors of ommission in their reviews because if they feel something is too expensive they leave it out or they bad mouth it.
I guess no one should buy Acura's Lexus"s Porsche's or Mercede's because they are just too expensive, well that is Consumer Reports mentality and these morons do high end video and especially audio dirty, real dirty.
The main reason for plasma's demise and I hear it on a day to basis is the glare and reflection issues, I have a 8 year 42" Fujistu in a room full of windows and transoms above them and it is highly reflective during the sunlight hours, however 90 percent of my television viewing does come at night and I would suspect that cover a lot of people as well. When I move the Fujistu to the bedroom I will replace it with a Pioneer Elite, it is the best television set and it is unfortunately it is going away.
I am not trying to make people mad with this statement, but there is vast majority of people out there that are cheap, no doubt we are in horrible ecomony no doubt there is hard times and some people barely know where their next meal is coming from, however that is not case in the vast majority of people here in the O C. When people come into my showroom, and start asking for crap like Vizio, I hand them all of the complaints from Consumer Affairs org about Vizio and their "legendary" service. After they see the abundance of complaints they realize that maybe it is better to spend an extra 200-350$ for something that will last longer with better reproduction and not help to support the Chinese.
The vortex that is created by these Chinese OEM companies, Polaroid, Westinghouse, Norcent, Maxent, Ilo and other various P O S television companies, does hurt the better manufacturers, what happens is they forced to put out a lower end product for the COSTCO's and Walmart's of the world, what the customer is buying is the brand not necessarily the best of what the manufacturer has to offer.
When Pioneer bought the NEC plasma factory in 2004 they expected to continue to supply Sony, Sharp and Mitsubishi with those panels, when Panasonic crushed everyone with there pricing and great bang for the buck product it knocked all of those vendors out the plasma business because they could not compete. Now Panasonic only have the Koreans left in the plasma business. so the irony is they have killed all of the competition in their category so well that their category will probably go away, talk about a catch 22.
As far a LCD, when I look at them, I see a picture that is overly bright and in a lot of instances a picture that loses a lot true detail and flesht tones on people that don't look real unless you that Gothic Chic Heroin look which I see on a lot of LCD's, but I do know that crap is king in this country. What is popular and what is good are two completely different things.
I- Pod is the most popular audio medium these days, but is doesn't hold a candle to SACD or DVD Audio or Dual Disc, which are all but dead formats. So people value convience above all over quality and that you take to the bank.
RIP Pioneer, let's go to Mac Donald's.
V Langs @ Feb 27th 2009 10:49AM
gary, as someone who's adamant about good picture and sound quality, i really appreciate your post.
it was spot on, to the point of excessiveness...what people don't get is that most TV is still ANALOG. sure, most Crap-CDs can do great HD, I will give them that. but any analog source looks like utter SHITE when pumped through them.
my XBR5 was horrible at producing analog signals and even most hd channels don't show hd all the time. now if you were buying one solely for a computer monitor, you could make a case for lcd to me. but you intend to watch even an hour or so of sdtv, the choice is clear.
couple that with amazing blacks and the most neutral colors of any technology... it's a no brainer to me.
persim @ Feb 26th 2009 12:18PM
Relatives of mine just bought a 65in Viera and I was completely blown away. It was probably one of the best if not the best picture I have ever seen. That said, I have to say that I will stick with LCD, at least until OLED comes. Whether or not anyone wants to believe it, burn-in is real. My buddy's 42in Kuro has the EspnHD bars to prove it, which is a shame because it too was one of the best pictures I have ever seen. Now his set is a about 2 years old, so I'm not sure how much has improved. If it is truly a non issue now then Panasonic needs to offer a lifetime warranty against that for any hope of survival. I just can't justify spending that much for a tv, only to have it ruined in 2 years.
Jeff N. @ Feb 26th 2009 12:50PM
It is harder to have the burn in problem with Plasmas
these days but if you leave it on one station (like apparently your friend does) and don't change the channel very often and that channel uses borders you can get burn in. Majority of people it will never happen. You friend could of easily prevented this problem.
Loban @ Feb 26th 2009 1:38PM
Persim,
Correct me if you're 100% sure it's permanent burn-in, but what you're most likely seeing is temporary image retention, which DOES occur on plasma, is NOT permanent, AND also happens on CRTs and has happened on CRTs for the past 60 years. In FACT, LCD DOES suffer from the same thing. My wife's MP3 player has song title and information permanently "burned" into the LCD. I have no idea what caused it or how it happened, but it happened.
I've had my VIERA for 2 years, I do extensive gaming on it, and see image retention ALL THE TIME, but it's NEVER been permanent. In fact, it goes away after putting a dynamic image on the screen.
Gus @ Feb 26th 2009 7:01PM
I have 2 Panasonic Viera Plasmas and they both have very minor burn in issues, but it is easily remedied. Whenever I notice it (and that's when I look closely for it, it's not obvious to anyone else unless I point it out) sometimes after extended game play or the TV being fixed on one channel for very long periods of time I switch channels and run a slow moving TV show or a movie perhaps, 10 minutes later any burnt images have completely dissipated.
I might have to do this once every 8 weeks or so at most, a very small price to pay for the extra quality Plasma TVs offer.
cwnyc @ Feb 26th 2009 9:46PM
Kuros, like many other modern plasmas, come with burn in prevention tactics like very slow pixel shifting that your eyes cannot see, but you will have to turn it on. Your buddy probably did not turn it on. Is he even tech savvy? I have fallen asleep many times with my 60" Kuro left on news cast or 3:4 ratio program channels and mine is just fine...
myaeger18 @ Mar 2nd 2009 12:29PM
I have a 42 inch Samsung Plasma that has pixel rotation built in. This helps eliminate the burn-in. Alot of people say not to play video games or watch channels that have the symbols in the same spot. I have never had an issue. Do your homework and use the tv options available and the problem will no hapen.
jd.junk1 @ Feb 26th 2009 12:19PM
I think the key here is that Plasma only really excels at sizes above 42" (really, 50"+), and that market, which was never that huge to begin with, got a whole lot smaller in the last six months. Now that there's less competition, there will be a lot less pressure for the remaining players to drop out, particularly Panasonic, which we can expect to pretty much own the market going forward. It's definitely possible, however, that Samsung, et al, will decide along the same lines as Pioneer that the cost to stay in the game isn't worth the likely rewards in the end.
Probably Pioneer realized that even if the economy recovers, there's always going to be a limited ROI for humongous high-end TVs, and that makes eating their costs until such a recovery all the more unpalatable. Given that there doesn't seem to be anything on the horizon that's likely to strip away plasma's appeal in the 50"+ market, then for Panasonic, that ROI is going to be much easier to justify given that they produce a whole range of plasmas, and that after any sort of economic recovery, they're going to have a much clearer field to market in. Add a few top engineers from Pioneer to the mix, and they should have plenty of reason to keep their plasma division for a few more years at least.
I just wish RED would hurry up and put out a 4K LCD and project like they've been hinting at.
Jeff N. @ Feb 26th 2009 12:53PM
Well I hope we always have a choice of having 60" HDTV and that is not taken away from Consumers. Plasma still has the advantage in the larger sizes. Not everyone wants a 42" HDTV.
glenn s @ Feb 26th 2009 1:37PM
Meh, I don't really care too much.
I think the best plasmas are still better than the best LCDs, but if all of the R&D is going into LCD or OLED, then they will catch up and surpass plasma in short order. Maybe Pioneer just saw the tech curve was inevitably slanting toward LCD and decided not to throw any more money at a tech that it sees as inferior in the long run. Or maybe they just decided that they can't make money on it. Either way, Panasonic will eventually reach the same conclusion in all likelihood.
Loban @ Feb 26th 2009 1:48PM
I disagree, due to the limitations and fundamental functionality of LCD and how the image is produced, it will NEVER equal Plasma. It just can't. The light is produced behind the color cells, the pixels are inherently slower. To make LCD even approach LCD, the manufacturers have to use gimmicks and tricks.
giesen @ Feb 26th 2009 3:25PM
Plasma has plenty of life in it. It's widely regarded as the best tech for mid-range TV sets, and that market is not going away.
Pioneer's Plasmas were just too high end. People knew they were the best, but the market for luxury $3000+ TV sets just collapsed.
LCD owns the low end. Impulse shoppers notice the brightness advantage of LCD and pick that right away. But people buying a $1000-$2000 set, are generally a little more knowledgeable and appreciate the deeper blacks and color reproduction advantage of plasma.
Also, less manufacturers means more market for the remaining players.
Vance @ Feb 26th 2009 1:54PM
Funny how when Ryan Block predicted this very state of affairs at the beginning of January, everybody jumped all over him, saying he was out of his mind. Now, it turns out he was spot on.
Good thing he is still a consultant for Engadget, I would listen to him when he starts viewing "around the corner".
persim @ Feb 26th 2009 1:58PM
Loban,
Not exactly sure if it is permanent burn-in or temp. I go over there 1 or 2 times a month and it has been there since the end of last summer. I will suggest the dynamic image test and hopefully it will help.
I am not knocking Plasma and I do think that the picture is better than a LCD. Just for me the few negatives it does have outweigh the slightly better picture.
Bootleg Zani @ Feb 26th 2009 2:16PM
Once again the average consumer has ruined something else.
chuckdaly @ Feb 26th 2009 3:56PM
Plasma was the first flat panel technology for consumers and it was wicked expensive and prone to failure. Prices came down quickly and reliability went up just as fast, yet the bad reputation remained. People today still ask if plasmas are reliable or prone to burn in. Panasonic Plasmas have a greater half-life than LCDs, and Burn-in hasn't been an issue for at least 4 years. (BTW Image retention is not Burn-in, and LCDs can have Burn-in also) Nonetheless the stigma remains to this day. Not addressing those fallicies head-on sealed the fate for Plasma.
Regarding Price, XBRs, and 950 Sammys were the same price if not more than Elites, yet Elites were leagues better.
Regarding Picture Quality, Plasmas looked awful compared to CRTs and cost way more 7-8 years ago (Direct view and Rear Proj) and people still bought them by the truckload. Heck, most weren't even HD!! Anyone remember the Philips Commercial with the couple lying in bed, looking at a Plasma mounted on their ceiling? Sounds scary today, but it was the coolest thing 8 years ago. Marketing and Advertising trumps performance every day of the week.
More importantly, this only proves the case of LCDs being overpriced. LCDs have been price-fixed for quite some time, and consumers purchased them based on trumped up fear. If a company like Planar who sells far fewer LCDs than Pioneer sold Plasmas and still remained profitable, the only answer is price fixing.
Nick Catalano @ Feb 26th 2009 6:02PM
I bought a 50" samsung plasma recently because I cared about blacks... and would have gone with a KURO... If it WASN'T A FREAKING FORTUNE
I already paid enough for my plama, which does blacks perfectly fine (but not as good as a KURO) but if pioneer cannot hit the right price points they are not going to compete in the market and probably deserve to go...
Their business plan only works if there are people with a lot of money to throw around, but in this market, where that is not the case, people will be perfectly fine with plasmas and LCDs from Samsung/Panasonic/Vizio
Josh Poulson @ Feb 26th 2009 7:26PM
It seems to me that Pioneer could see it was not worth the investment to fight the oncoming OLED onslaught. Until then LCD would be the cost leader, and time as the quality leader is likely to only last for another couple years.
Nick @ Feb 26th 2009 10:02PM
If this were a question of value or dollar signs, then DLP sales would have shot WAY up. I know DLP is not plasma when it comes to blacks, but it certainly comes WAY closer than LCD ever will. It's also WAY cheaper per inch than both of them. It's a matter of popularity, what makes them cooler. I know tons of people who buy their electronics to look cool. I have a cousin who spent a fortune on his 42" LCD TV and bose surround sound system. He had a huge movie night, and talked it up a big game, and I just kinda laughed. Couple weeks ago I had my own movie gathering. Chicken wings, homemade beer (greatest hobby known to man), and a night with my 52" DLP TV and Polk Audio surround sound system. Granted, my stuff doesn't look as nice when the power's turned off, but it'll kick the crap out of your average idiot's system any day.
The point is that he bought his stuff because it looked good, and I'm not talking about image quality. My TV has to be sat on a table. His mounts to the wall (and don't start with the plasma mounts to the wall too crap, because you know it's different). That's what it's all about.
The ipod isn't more popular because it's more convenient, it's more popular because it's chic, and has a better chance of getting you laid than SACD. Same thing with plasma, the image quality is orgasmic, but it just doesn't fit with the decor.
cwnyc @ Feb 27th 2009 5:29AM
I so agree with you! The average consumers are not all that educated in the technologies they purchase, and it is not true that they buy value and quality. It is quite the opposition, they buy coolness and what they weer pushed to think as value. Your comparison with LCDs and BOSE products is what I have been telling all this time... BOSE makes the worst product at very high profit margin, poor performance at the worst value there is. But so why are they selling so well...? Big chained store sales people feeding false information and hype, and their push for sales for these products... You hit the nail on the head...
chuckdaly @ Feb 26th 2009 10:56PM
Samsung LN-50a850 MSRP $3499
Sony KDL52XBR& MSRP $4199
Pioneer PDP-5020FD MSRP $4000
The Pioneer is the best HDTV of the three and it isn't the most expensive. Sony and Samsung aren't having issues selling or making money on the two sets above. So lets stop saying its a price issue.
joseph_minnie @ Feb 26th 2009 11:45PM
Well I purchased a 40inch Sony Vseries last Feb for $1399.00 on sale at Sears from the regular price of $1899.99. And the Damn thing looks great yeah the blacks aren't as good as a CRT but it looks good. Now I have noticed alot of people compare contrast in sets but I have noticed one thing noone compares to going to their Local Cineplex 8 because I went to see the Dark Knight in the Theater and noticed something the blacks on screen were mor like dark grey. And this wasn't a old theater this was a new one. I remember thinking of this when I purchased my First Sony XBR LCD Projection Set and saw how the blacks where a dark grey I said well its just like at the theaters. As long as the Colors, Brightness and Sharpness is good on a set then buy it.
Just my Op
Joe
minimalist @ Feb 27th 2009 12:16AM
Define "death".
Death as is no plasmas being manufactured and sold at all? Or just not through big box retailers?
Tube amps didn't die when transisters dominated amplifiers.
What plasma is likely to become is a niche product for videophiles. Just because its not mainstream does not mean there is no money to be made in an industry.
engadget @ Feb 27th 2009 9:55AM
Plasma is dead. If it can't be used above 5000ft in elevation, why would I want it?
(Living at 7000ft in elevation makes you realize how dumb some technology is.
Tom @ Feb 27th 2009 9:31AM
I bought a 50" Pioneer in early 2006, before the Kuro was introduced. But for the past couple years, I've suffered Kuro-envy. I couldn't justify buying a new TV, when this one was doing just fine. I promised myself I would only upgrade when there was a leap in (or a new) technology. However, there doesn't seem to be any on the horizon for the next 5 or so years (OLED seeming the only one, if it ever becomes consumer friendly).
With the demise of the Kuro, I feel I should upgrade (to 60") before it completely disappears. So are the last of the Kuros in production now? If so, when will those hit the market? Or is the stock current that retailers have the last and I need to think of buying soon?
And what is a 3 year-old 50" 720p Pioneer worth anyway? :)
V Langs @ Feb 27th 2009 10:44AM
at least 50% to someone who appreciates good picture :-)
Matt @ Feb 27th 2009 10:02AM
In my opinion, which can be unpopular here, I think the "death" of plasma (I own and love my plasma) is due to all the b.s. being marketed to people. 1 quntillion-billion dynamic contrast ratios and 7000000hz, 65 hdmi inputs and .0000000034 inches thick.
None of that matters, but big numbers sell.
And those figures have confused people into the illusion that bigger numbers are better. It makes me think of 900mhz cordless phones. Then 2.4ghz and then 5.8. I don't remember the 900 mhz phone going bad? It always worked as good as the 5.8ghz phone does now.
V Langs @ Feb 27th 2009 10:43AM
I have a 50in elite kuro
best purchase of my life.
and for all of those who say plasmas don't look as chic as lcds, maybe i'm crazy but i love the simple rectangle design of most plasmas (especially the kuro) i don't have the speakers or stand (cantilever mount, denon sound) but the gloss black finish is amazing and since no one touches it (except to clean) it always looks great.
ok that was the styling...
THE PICTURE BLOWS MY XBR OUT OF THE WATER. I just sold my XBR5 to my friend for about 2600 (52in) he's happy...you can damn sure bet i'm happy.
the blacks are amazing and colors pop without cheap LCD gimmicks