Bad news,
Time Warner Cable subscribers. The cable carrier notorious for resisting HD expansion until a competitor rolls into town is getting ready to pull all 19 MTV Networks channels (MTV, Nickelodeon, VH1 and Comedy Central just to name a few, presumably including the HD versions).
Viacom has just unleashed a scathing announcement that calls the carrier's refusal to pony up "outrageous," and publicly pleads for its bigwigs to reconsider and open up the checkbook. In essence, Viacom is asking for a fee increase of just under $0.25 per month, per subscriber -- which, admittedly, sounds rather high given the lack of MTV-related content that's a) watchable and b) in high-definition -- but TWC is straight-up refusing.
Now, we've no qualms with a provider balking at price increases, but while it's planning to let content vanish from lineups, it's also raising monthly rates by $3 in Raleigh, Orange County, Los Angeles and New York City. Ahem, TWC -- could you bother justifying these hikes by allowing us to keep our content? And don't even come at us with the "we just added more HD!" comment -- after all, you blast us everyday with ads proclaiming that your HD "is free."
[Disclosure: Engadget is part of the Time Warner family]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
drphil7 @ Dec 30th 2008 10:35PM
Looks like they are gonna effect young and old, I guess their 2-48 year old demographic with those channels. Nickelodeon to Comedy Central... I wont bother mentioning MTV which should be stricken as a channel as a whole.
Funke, Tobias Dr. @ Dec 31st 2008 2:56AM
Sounds like a job for... A La Carte Cable Man!
ed @ Dec 30th 2008 10:38PM
I just hate Time Warner and all their b.s.
Rob @ Dec 30th 2008 11:07PM
Can someone explain to me what the hell are MTV, VH1, and BET??? They certainly don't play music. And the shows they play are complete fecal. Is Jerry Springer, and that cigar smoking producer of his, behind the programming of these three networks? These three channels are right next to each other on my cable system. I just skip them altogether because no matter the time of day, I already know whatever they're showing is more likely shit.
Rey Luca @ Dec 31st 2008 2:30PM
I could not have said it better myself, Right on, Rob! The trash that these channels output is unbelievable!
Carlos @ Dec 30th 2008 11:14PM
I thought during the late 90s that MTV was going to grown as a pioneer of music on cable, maybe because I was a teen i didn't see the garbage that it was. I haven't watched MTV on 8 years, and less likely now since I only watch HD content and TWC here in NYC doesn't carry MTVHD. I don't even watch John Stuart anymore on Comedy central, because he will not longer has bush to bash.
I will miss palladia though since its own my Viacom.
Rob @ Dec 31st 2008 2:46PM
You're not alone. I'm 34, and I haven't watched MTV since my senior year in HS, 1992. And quite honestly, I feel like I haven't missed one thing. BET should be banned for the garbage they promote. Instead of promoting the good in the African-American culture, they promote the bad. VH1 was my last hope, and then they decided to ruin it by becoming MTV's left overs channel. The final nail on VH1's coffin was when they gave Flavor Flave his own show. Right then I knew everything was lost.
Again, I don't think I've lost on anything. I feel bad for today's youth who are been force fed nothing but garbage. And it's not a generational thing, because back in the 80's and early 90 people were actually writing some good stuff, just like they did in the 60's and 70's. Today, it's all bs. Oh well. Today's "talent" is being measured by the like of "Paris Hilton" and the tabloid magazines. Way to go.
kevinm @ Dec 30th 2008 11:18PM
Wow I'd just say goodbye TWC and hello Dish or Directv. I'm sure many TWC feel the same way.
mike @ Dec 30th 2008 11:38PM
I am planning a move after February and I will be looking to the southeast for a clear shot at the big sky of the DirecTv (or maybe Dish) Gods. I may just get the hell out of Orange County all together. But that is a different rant. TWC KMA. Gotta Love TLAs.
THizzle7XU @ Dec 31st 2008 12:18AM
The only channel I'd worry about losing is Comedy Central, and that's only for South Park, which doesn't even have new episodes for awhile. I do like South Park OnDemand though...
Shame either way, and Viacom is sad too. They probably have more commercials than anyone on PAID cable television and they still want more from the subscribers (via the cable company).
THizzle7XU @ Dec 31st 2008 12:30AM
Oh ya, and I just remembered that southparkstudios.com has all the new episodes the day after and other random ones as well. OK, I officially don't care about this since MTV is trash anyways. If this keeps the bill lower, I'm on TWC side on this one.
LordVesper007 @ Dec 31st 2008 12:33AM
I keep telling my parents to get Dish or Direct yet they won't listen. Perhaps this will send them over the edge...
Jake @ Dec 31st 2008 12:56AM
I wish I could get a cable company that refused to air Viacom networks (excluding Comedy Central). Although I could just get my South Park fix online... :)
Jeff Simmermon @ Dec 31st 2008 1:03AM
Darren, I'm sorry to see you fall for Viacom's overly reductive "
Jeff Simmermon @ Dec 31st 2008 1:24AM
Darren, I'm sorry to see you fall for Viacom's absurdly reductive reasoning here. We're not talking about couch-cushion change here. This is millions and millions of dollars, a rate increase that's nearly triple the increases set out in our last agreement. Referring to this sum of money as a few cents a day is like telling a drowning man he's gargling a little water.
Nobody watches MTV unless they're on a treadmill at the gym and can't catch a Simpsons rerun, and Viacom knows it better than anyone else. Sure, Viacom's got Colbert and the Daily Show, but they're available online for free. It's Bizarro-world economics. In what other world would you pay more for something that's free somewhere else?
Jeff Simmermon @ Dec 31st 2008 1:25AM
I neglected to identify myself in that comment above -- I'm the director of digital communications at Time Warner Cable.
Aaron @ Dec 31st 2008 1:44AM
If all this were actually the master plan behind losing as many subscribers as possible, Step 1 would be "Drop Comedy Central."
Carl @ Dec 31st 2008 1:57AM
Jeff it's disingenuous though to act like they're out of their minds when you know (or should know) exactly why they're doing this: they feel they have to. It's definitely not cost of content or anything else on that order, but in a time when cashflow is king and debt hangs over every company like a swinging axe... it's a move of desperation. But also perceived necessity in all likelihood.
I view TWC's $3 rate increase in the stated areas as the same thing, or should I not? I mean I'm not thinking the cost of laying infrastructure has gone up, that's for sure! The cost of everything capex related has come down, and that's partly because of the aforementioned cashflow/debt spiral of doom combination. So I have to assume that TWC is doing to its customers the same as Viacom is attempting to its distributors and for the same reasons; not because costs have gone up, but because the need for cashflow has gone up so severely.
I'm not making a judgment as to what's right and wrong, because it's neither right or wrong - it just is what it is. I just don't know that you should be painting them as wild/insane when I have to imagine you clearly know their desperation.
I own Time Warner shares btw, so I mean... like I said I have to assume the reason I'm guessing for the $3 price hike is the right one, since man does that debt burden loom large.
It's crazy and brutal times.
chefgon_ign @ Dec 31st 2008 7:18AM
I find the "Viacom is just MTV" mentality ridiculous. Do you really think that the average family is going to continue paying high prices for cable if you take away Spongebob Squarepants? You're going to have thousands of working families switching to Dish the very next day if you murder their favorite babysitter.
Xyzzy @ Dec 31st 2008 9:28AM
Hey Jeff --
I appreciate you posting here. I have one comment to make though:
"In what other world would you pay more for something that's free somewhere else?"
Based on that statement, most of the channels you offer are worthless. I can get most of the shows I watch for free online (legally, through the network's website), so why should I pay TWC anything at all?
terry @ Dec 31st 2008 1:27AM
wtf this seriously pisses me off, as a TW customer in CNY this is really really big, i mean we do have direct tv, and dish but its not all that popular. Viacom and TW just screwed over a bunch of people. Now i have to watch shit channels like FOX wtf.....breaking my balls time warner
Terry @ Dec 31st 2008 1:39AM
And to Jeff Simmermon people do watch those show(Thought im not morning the loss of MTV) and sure you can find episodes free online but not everyone owns a fast enough computer to watch those episodes.(Not to mention the internet service isnt that great) Tho i am bashin TW id still prefer it over a lot of other services...o well
Squid7085 @ Dec 31st 2008 1:43AM
This is just stupid, they won't go through with it, and if they do they are just plain stupid. I see it as more of a threat. If anybody in that board room doesn't think that pulling those channels won't cause a huge loss in revenue and a large percent of consumers dropping service, they again are plain stupid. I could see a large percent of subscribers dropping the next day, even if the channels disappear for a day. No service can survive without Viacom channels, period. I watch Comedy Central 90% of the time, if my provider dropped Viacom, I would drop them the next day. Thankfully I am with what has recently appeared to be the only semi-sane cable company in the country, Cox.
Xyzzy @ Dec 31st 2008 9:37AM
I doubt it's a bluff. They pulled local CBS affiliates in several areas (Buffalo, Green Bay, and Austin I believe?) in the middle of football season because they didn't want to pay more money - and lots of people switched to satellite service at that point.
digitallysick @ Dec 31st 2008 2:24AM
I'm on dish network , im getting this same message, am i going to lose these stations? if so im done, dish network has screwed me out of my VOOM HD stations, and now i get this message, im sick of re runs constantly on this service
volcanopele @ Dec 31st 2008 3:55AM
That message is added by Viacom to their channels, so people see it regardless of the content supplier. I have Cox and I see the message on the Viacom channels I have.
sitruc @ Dec 31st 2008 2:24AM
I read the headline and thought, "Damn lucky bastards with no Viacom stations."
digitallysick @ Dec 31st 2008 3:29AM
With dishnetwork they take away stations and charge the same, thats my concern, plus comedy central is the only decent station on tv
De'Borah @ Dec 31st 2008 3:10AM
Well, I've got BrightHouse Networks; and I watch all of the channels off and on. However, I would hate to lose TVLand. That's mostly what I watch because I love classic television shows like that. There is a number to demand that these channels are kept. The number for Bright House Customers is 866-309-3279. I'm not sure what the number is for Time Warner customers. One must be at least 18 to call. Nevertheless, regardless of the reason that this is being done, BrightHouse or Time Warner shouldn't do this to their customers. In the long run, that would hurt them despite their reasons for doing this.
De'Borah @ Dec 31st 2008 3:23AM
The number for Time Warner customers to call is 800-762-3786. Bright House customers should be able to call this number, too. I wasn't able to get through dialing the Bright House number, but I was able to get through on the Time Warner number, but there is a very long wait time - about 10 min. I'm still holding.
mitchelljd @ Dec 31st 2008 1:55PM
personally, i believe Viacom has horrible corporate objectives in raising their carriage rates at a horrible economic environment.
i have no problem with time warner telling them no, the only issue i have is TWC's raising their prices at the same time. sends the wrong signal. keep prices frozen you idiots. and have no HD price penalty.
De'Borah @ Dec 31st 2008 3:29AM
Well, I'll try again in a few hours. I had been sleeping since I got home from work and got up at 2 am. That's when I saw the msg flashing across my tv screen. I'm going to go to bed now. The wait was too long, but I will try again first thing when I get back up. I encourage everyone to attempt and call who is interested. Thanks and Happy New Year to all!!!
Michael @ Dec 31st 2008 4:26AM
I hate Viacom. Good riddance, i hope this is permanent so Time Warner can actually make use of the freed bandwith and give us better channels than that Viacom junk
chefgon_ign @ Dec 31st 2008 7:01AM
I watch very little TV, but when I do watch it's usually Nick at Nite. If they kill Nickelodeon, I'm cancelling my cable.
miro @ Dec 31st 2008 8:09AM
Too bad we won't see TWC decrease our rates since we'll have 19 less channels. I may not have watched 18 of them, but I still paid for them. Losing channels should equal a rate decrease, but alas, this is basically TWC charging more for less.
The Fuzz 53 @ Dec 31st 2008 9:03AM
I would gladly ditch the aberration known as MTV if it meant lowering my bill. God, what a steaming pile of crap. I haven't watched that channel in 10 years, and have yet to see one ounce of HD programming on it. Directv should ditch MTVHD and pick up Comedy Central HD, PRONTO!
PSN: Aggie_CEO @ Dec 31st 2008 9:06AM
yea I just seen that scroll bar when I turned my kids TV on Noggin so they can watch their shows........
its Says Time Warner AND BrightHouse tho.......
really is quite crazy but its not like I'm gonna switch providers because I lose some channels......hell I dont even watch any of them Noggin & Comedy Central.......and I think I can live without those until the situation is rectified.......and we all know it will be......TWC cant afford to lose a few million people because of this......
GolfProRM @ Dec 31st 2008 9:10AM
Everyone seems to be missing what the real problem is. Losing MTV and Comedy Central will be annoying, but what about the millions of parents out there who raise their kids on Nickelodeon? My nephew loves the Nickelodeon shows, and I'll be glad he's not my kid when he can't watch Dora anymore. I'm sure once all the moms realize they don't have a Nickelodeon babysitter, they'll raise a big enough stink to get TWC straightened out.
Carrie @ Dec 31st 2008 10:31AM
The real problem is that the consumer, of whom, many are parents, are not given the choice in this matter. When reading more about this impasse between two corporate giants, the argument is over less than 35 cents per day for the consumer of TWC, about 13 million people who will be affected. That is a LOT of money over one day, let alone a year. What expenses has Viacom incurred that requires this increase of carriage costs to the provider? Why can't these corporate giants ask the little guy how he or she feels? Probably because it costs too much money to pay a survey company!
Viacom is backing TWC into a corner to enrage the customer. It is not TWC's fault for not wanting their company to pay more or charging their consumers more, but if they would have informed their customers of this before the plug was being pulled, the consumer, me and you, would have the opportunity to react to both Viacom and TWC sides of the decisions. By the way, how will my rates be affected either way...if I lose or maintain these channels? It is a double-edged sword!
Carrie @ Dec 31st 2008 9:40AM
I understand that money is important to business, but why not raise the rates on your advertisers, not your subscribers. Why are your "valued" paying customers being penalized for a blow to the TWC ego with a loss of channels? I am a working mother. I have a newborn and a toddler. I am a teacher, so during the school-year, my children see and hear very little television, but in the summer and on breaks, the television is on! It is on Noggin! The shows on Noggin are Nickelodeon shows and shows from around the world to increase skills and learning in an entertaining format for children from birth to school-age. I certainly do not allow the television to "babysit" my children, but with two young children and dinner on the stove, it helps when their father has to be late from work or on the days when I have to bring some work home with me! Also, Noggin programs allow us to interact and dance with the activities on the programs.
I watch very little television on my own, I definitely do not watch the wasted stations such as MTV and VH1, but I do enjoy Comedy Central. I could live without it, I'm sure, but, as a mother, what point would there be for me to continue paying $100 a month for cable and internet, when all I will need is internet? I am sure I can find this for a far more reasonable rate elsewhere. What reason should I continue paying for cable when I can't get the programming I chose to pay for.
I am curious as to why we, the customers, were not notified of this by our providers, TWC and Bright House? The only reason I know of the cancellations is because I turned on the TV for my daughter this morning. There was a black bar scrolling at the bottom of the screen. If this is a ploy to see the reactions, I am sure it will work, but in whose favor? I hope that it will be in my favor, the consumer, who has been paying for these services for a great deal of time.
Mikes cool @ Dec 31st 2008 9:54AM
I watch MTV, BET and most of the Viacom channels on TWC in my room. Downstairs my brother who is 3, watches spongebob square pants ALL the time. Its like my moms babysitter. BUT he gets it thru dish thank god. Now I see where both sides are coming from, but this is clearly viacoms fault for being greedy. TWC is going to lose customers but its not like their perfect either.
I pay 60 bucks for internet, and I get around 1mb, yes, thats 1 mb during the evenings, and it goes down to 500kbps. I Should be getting around 20mbps. And when I call them up, they said they arent going to fix the problem because of one person... All they have to do is split the node in my neighborhood.
Neither are perfect..
LordVesper007 @ Dec 31st 2008 10:01AM
I love how people here are acting like MTV and BET don't really have any viewers when they know damn well that's far from the case.
Perhaps your holier than thou lifestyles don't include those channels but plenty of people like MTV and/or BET and if TWC is stupid enough to let them go then I'll take my business elsewhere.
FLMom @ Dec 31st 2008 11:12AM
Viacom needs to think of the consumers first - Please don't pull these channels from Time Warner Cable or Brighthouse Networks!
http://www.floodthelines.com/viacomdontpullchannels/
JagoMidnight @ Dec 31st 2008 11:56AM
OMG For the first time in a while, I'm glad I have Cablevision in NYC!
mike @ Dec 31st 2008 1:31PM
none of those channels had any hd content worth mentioning any way. commedy central and nick are the only channels i will miss, but as i said before, with no hd content i could care less. i am as happy as i could ever be at the prospect of mtv going down the toilet ( i hope cmt does to). the artists and fans have been screaming for years for mtv to start showing videos, but for some reason they have resisted. music television, it is in thier name for God sakes. if dish was to try and raise my rates to support mtv, i would drop them too. i think over all this is a good thing. if it forces content providers to go hd, maybe start producing better programs and stop the ever increasing rates. i love music videos but cmt and mtv rarely show any and certainly not any hd. paladia on dish channel 369 SUCKS too. it harkins back to the voom days with the same old stuff (videos that is, day after day and only at night. if it were not for having a dvr, i would never get to see videos on paladia.
Randall Lind @ Dec 31st 2008 5:09PM
If it's not in HD I don't care any more. If the cost is only 25 cents per user to keep the channels then just raise the cable bill 25 cents.
Brighthouse raise my bill for other dumb crap but cried over 25 cents. I am sure people won't bitch about a quarter. I never watch any of it anyway. MTV,VH1 wash up rock stars tv network.
TNT,Scifi,USA,dicovery,TLC,FX HD are there I am happy.
anyone have the full list of the 19 channels anyway that are being pulled? I wish they would pull all the shopping channels also while they are at it.
Alex @ Dec 31st 2008 2:13PM
Very simple (and scattered above):
If Time Warner can scrap some channels to save costs, why can't subscribers?
rob madden @ Dec 31st 2008 2:18PM
The 19 channels being taken away:
http://www.viacom.com/OURBRANDS/Pages/default.aspx
Iridium @ Dec 31st 2008 2:26PM
What I really want is to only pay for the channels I watch. My bill keeps going up becuase of adding all kinds or crap channels that I will never tune into.
I know that ESPN costs me over $5 an month and I never watch it. All of the VH1 and MTV channels can go. You can get rid of CNN, BET, Oxygen, Halmark, and Lifetime as well. Honestly I only watch about 10 channels. Those ten channels probably cost me less than $5 a month out of my total cable bill.
It is absurd to pay for 250 or more channels that you never watch. Hopefully some time soon you will be able to get live HD streams of channels like Discovery over the internet. I would even pay $1 a month for access to it.
U-verse a la carte looked to be promising when they announced it but the pricing structure makes it worthless.
We all need to call our cable providers and demand to only pay the charge for channels we watch. If MTV really wants to stay on the air then let the people who want to pay for it keep it. Instead everyone who pays a cable bill is helping to keep that crap station in the lineup.
ack154 @ Dec 31st 2008 2:51PM
So if they take away my Viacom channels, will my bill go down? It should.
I'd consider switching to satellite at this point, but my apartment people won't let me put up a dish.