http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/12/03/upscaling-gets-broken-down-and-explained-in-laymans-terms/ Engadget HD Comments for http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com en-us Copyright 2009 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/12/03/upscaling-gets-broken-down-and-explained-in-laymans-terms/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/12/03/upscaling-gets-broken-down-and-explained-in-laymans-terms/
Still selling their HD snake oil]]>Dec 3rd 2008 10:05AMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/12/03/upscaling-gets-broken-down-and-explained-in-laymans-terms/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/12/03/upscaling-gets-broken-down-and-explained-in-laymans-terms/Dec 3rd 2008 10:42AMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/12/03/upscaling-gets-broken-down-and-explained-in-laymans-terms/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/12/03/upscaling-gets-broken-down-and-explained-in-laymans-terms/
"Toshiba is first to admit that Resolution+ doesn't offer true HD images as a result of all this processing, but it does claim to be a leap forward in television upscaling technology. "

All of which is pretty ironic considering how poor almost all of the Blu-ray players are at DVD playback.
With 2 or maybe 3 exceptions it is odd that DVD playback on Blu-ray players is so bad - one can't help wondering if this is deliberate to over-emphasise the difference.

I don't know what parallel reality your think you come from but I have 600+ DVDs (that I will not be replacing) which I want played back to the highest quality (upscaling/upconversion) possible.
Also my TV service is not even 25% HD yet so I also want the highest quality playback (upscaling/upconversion) for it too.

Taking these regular dumb and ill-considered pathetic little digs at this tech is just about as self-harming & idiotic as it gets (in tech-land).
The truth is that we will all be having a hell of a lot of upscaling/upconversion to do for a long time yet.

If this stuff lives up to even half of the initial claims it ought to be a substantial leap ahead of today's upscaling.

(.....and it's not just Toshiba that are going to be using it, Sharp have bought the licence too, I suspect they will not be alone)

The mass-market will continue to use 32" - 42" sets for a very long time yet - and, given space limitations and the fact many if not most will never actually want a 'home cinema' anyways maybe most will never go beyond that kind of size.
We know from the figures reported here that as late as Sep this year (the last numbers given) 32" - 42" & 720p sets still make up the majority sold.
So therefore the usual claims that high def is so superior that upscaling/upconversion is a dreadful 2nd best just do not apply.
There is a difference, yes, but on that size of TV it is hardly one as amazingly marked as some seem so desperate to continually imply.]]>Dec 3rd 2008 10:44AMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/12/03/upscaling-gets-broken-down-and-explained-in-laymans-terms/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/12/03/upscaling-gets-broken-down-and-explained-in-laymans-terms/2. It's not Snake Oil
3. It's not HD

Upscaling is great provided...
-the source (DVD, Laser Disc or other) is good. Superbit and Criterion are good places to start
-the display is 50" or less (the bigger the TV the more obvious it is that the source is SD)
-the upscaler isn't some half hearted implementation with Faroudja's cheapest de-interlacer rather well thought out use of Anchor Bay VRS, Silicon Optix HQV or Sigma Designs VXP.

Like I said, it's not HD, but it can make all the old SD content tolerable. ]]>Dec 3rd 2008 10:57AMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/12/03/upscaling-gets-broken-down-and-explained-in-laymans-terms/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/12/03/upscaling-gets-broken-down-and-explained-in-laymans-terms/
which while it can make something look slightly better. just ain't HD. though people on smaller 720p sets will be hard pressed to tell the difference.

just another thing Toshiba is using to attack blu-ray. hell their motto seems to be, "if HD DVD can't win, we will try and prevent Blu-Ray doing so"]]>Dec 3rd 2008 10:58AMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/12/03/upscaling-gets-broken-down-and-explained-in-laymans-terms/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/12/03/upscaling-gets-broken-down-and-explained-in-laymans-terms/
1. It's not line doubling.
2. Nobody's claiming it's HD.
3. Toshiba is not using it to "attack Blu-ray". They've bowed out of the HD disc-based media game, after losing a billion on HD DVD. The fact they're implementing cheap upscaling technologies in their TVs to make HDTVs more desirable at a time when most sources of content are SD is pretty reasonable. Guess what, Sony's doing the same thing. Is Sony using upscaling to attack Blu-ray too?

Engadget HD decided to run a hate-on against Toshiba at the end of the HD wars. They've consistently refused to acknowledge why Toshiba isn't investing in Blu-ray, instead portraying the whole thing as a war Toshiba's still fighting on behalf of HD DVD, despite Toshiba dropping the latter format. The claim Toshiba is creating new upscaling technologies to fight Blu-ray is so ridiculous it's incredible EHD can get away with claiming it.

Acknowledging the real reason means acknowledging that intelligent people who have to make real decisions with real money and real jobs on the line believe that Blu-ray is the wrong technology at the wrong time, and that investing in it at this particular point, competing with heavily subsidized boxes from Sony et al, in the vain hope that in three or four years the format might be successful, is a dead end.

By believing that upscaling is somehow part of a war on Blu-ray, you've fallen for EHD's argument hook line and sinker. Open your eyes.

Toshiba is investing in upscaling because it's cheap and desirable. Just as Sony is. Just as Pioneer is. Toshiba is not investing in Blu-ray not because they're still trying to push HD DVD, but because they don't believe it'll be profitable in the short term, or successful in the long term.

They're right, you know.
]]>Dec 3rd 2008 11:56AMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/12/03/upscaling-gets-broken-down-and-explained-in-laymans-terms/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/12/03/upscaling-gets-broken-down-and-explained-in-laymans-terms/
1- they have huge digital distribution content plans, for digital distribution and storefront/kiosks.
http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6599175.html
2- they have a huge digital storage division which manufactures memory chips, cards, hard drives and related other chips
3- They profit from continued dominance of DVD format, they are the largest patent holder as part of the DVD consortium. so more dvd's and players supporting it, they make more $$

As for the quality of upscaled DVD, it's a little better than the original, but it isn't good when compared to real HD. alot of people are being pushed to this as a temporary band aid to prevent the switchover to Blu-Ray, thus marginalizing physical formats and allow for digital distribution and ... Toshiba to profit alot from that part of the business.

Argue as much as you want that other companies are using upscaling technology, but Toshiba is the one pushin it the most, and for very very self interested reasons. nothing wrong with that, but it helps to know the real reasons behind it.

So why don't you acknowledge that? oh please.
]]>Dec 3rd 2008 1:35PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/12/03/upscaling-gets-broken-down-and-explained-in-laymans-terms/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/12/03/upscaling-gets-broken-down-and-explained-in-laymans-terms/
Yes, Toshiba believes the future is online content. That's why HD DVD incorporated online content. It was always intended to be an integral part of a system that eventually would drop hard media in favour of online distribution. So damn straight they're supporting various efforts to create online distribution systems, because they believe that's the future.

But you're taking that further than is legitimate. Toshiba is avoiding Blu-ray and investing in online systems because it sees BD as inevitably failing and online systems as likely to succeed. If Toshiba saw an opportunity to make money from Blu-ray, online or not, it'd do so.

This is not a matter of Toshiba wanting Blu-ray to fail. It's a matter of Toshiba saying "This is where we see the world heading" and then noting Blu-ray is not there and not capable of going there.

Your third point demonstrates how you're trying desperately to come up with justifications for the "Toshiba is trying to fight Blu-ray" meme. If you look at it, it completely contradicts your first two points. Toshiba is going online. It's not seeing hard media as having any future. Therefore it's safe to say Toshiba doesn't give a crap whether Blu-ray succeeds as a rival to DVD in that it sees DVD as likely to disappear anyway.

DVD is dying. Toshiba isn't trying to prop it up. Their entire focus is on what replaces it.

I'm neither going to acknowledge nor deny Toshiba's promotion of upscaling technology, given I've never really seen an ad for Toshiba or anyone else's upscaling technology outside of their own websites. What I will point out is this:

First, it's utterly irrelevant. Upscaling is a useful feature, and any manufacturer worth their salt is trying to create good upscalers.
Second, Toshiba was making quality upscalers back when they were still supporting HD DVD.

I guess Toshiba wanted HD DVD to fail too. Right?

Toshiba doesn't think Blu-ray's going to succeed. It's fairly obvious why they think that, you only have to read the HD DVD spec to get some idea of where the DVD Forum felt movie distribution was going, and Toshiba - as a major member of the DVD Forum - seems to be continuing to go in that direction. If Toshiba were to produce Blu-ray players, they'd be making a completely illogical leap into a technology of a type they said was dying.

]]>Dec 3rd 2008 2:08PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/12/03/upscaling-gets-broken-down-and-explained-in-laymans-terms/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/12/03/upscaling-gets-broken-down-and-explained-in-laymans-terms/
"So does this mean we can get high-definition images from standard-definition signals? Sadly not, because upscaling cannot add detail that wasn't there in the first place."

]]>Dec 3rd 2008 12:14PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/12/03/upscaling-gets-broken-down-and-explained-in-laymans-terms/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/12/03/upscaling-gets-broken-down-and-explained-in-laymans-terms/Dec 3rd 2008 1:33PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/12/03/upscaling-gets-broken-down-and-explained-in-laymans-terms/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/12/03/upscaling-gets-broken-down-and-explained-in-laymans-terms/
Those of us in the graphics business know this only too well. Sure, an 80Kb jpeg can be "upscaled" to a 10 mega-pixel image in Photoshop but its never going to look like a real high definition image. Computers can only do so much with information that's not there.

That said, I'm glad upscaling exists. The upscaling on my Blu-ray player makes my DVD's look about as good as they can. But even on a 46" TV its nobody would ever confuse it with a real HD source (even a 720p one).]]>Dec 3rd 2008 10:45PM