http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/ Engadget HD Comments for Ask Engadget HD: Which AV receiver has the best upscaling chip? http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com en-us Copyright 2009 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/Jul 9th 2008 12:47PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/Jul 9th 2008 6:34PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
I don't know about the Sony.]]>Jul 9th 2008 12:30PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
However, the Onkyo may be more picky than most as far as interoperability. Clearly had a problem with broken packets in DirecTV's Dolby Digital where the Denon did not.]]>Jul 9th 2008 12:36PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/Jul 9th 2008 1:40PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14244487#post14244487

"I was following the whole firmware update in the 805 thread when it became available through unofficial sources. The consensus was that it did nothing to help the lip sync issue. So I never bothered. Email from Onkyo confirmed it's hardware related, too many DSP's in the signal path and each one adds it's own delay. Unfortunately no firmware update could ever fix that. If you've really got your heart set on the 875 then buy it where you can exchange it for the 3808 if things go awry."

I don't know if this is true or not, as I didn't follow the firmware thread that closely.]]>Jul 9th 2008 2:11PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
http://www.hometheatermag.com/receivers/608recfeat/]]>Jul 9th 2008 12:30PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
I am happy with the up conversion in my Sony BDP-S300, but I can't tell you for sure if there's any relationship between that an what an ES receiver does. I really can't imagine you getting any one of those three receivers home and being disappointed.

Good Luck Man!

P.S. I'm waiting on my two favorite forum members to chime in with a rant about how you should not buy Sony because they killed HD-DVD. Expect a ringing endorsement of Toshiba receivers from those guys....even if Toshiba doesn't make receivers!]]>Jul 9th 2008 1:17PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
No offense, man, but I wouldn't touch any Sony amplifier product. Even the ES stuff is middle of the road at best.

Lots of people hate Sony for plenty of good and bad reasons, but HD DVD has nothing to do with this criticism...I just don't like their wimpy amps :)]]>Jul 9th 2008 4:04PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
I found that the Onkyo ran quite warm and should not be put inside any rack -- it needs all the circulation it can get. It also had an incompatibility with DirecTV DVRs (Dolby Digital sound went mute for 3 seconds following any interruption (rewind, pause, ff, etc) but this may be fixed now (DirecTV's problem).

If I could do without HDMI connections, I'd gladly trade my Denon 3808 for my old 3803. Two annoyances: On power-up, the 3808 does not respond to the remote for 5-10 seconds, breaking remote macros. And (like all HDMI) changing sources is slow. HDMI sucks.

As far as upscaling: 1) I have never seen any DVD upscaled by any device that beat 480p into my Sony set. Basically this means my set's upscaler is very good and I don't need to do this externally. 2) I cannot imagine why anyone would want to upscale from 1080i to 1080p unless their TV set is VERY broken. Again, the TV needs to convert everything to its native rez anyway, and either the set can deinterlace or it can't.

Denon likes the Faroudja chip because they can tweak it and the Reon chip (sez Denon (see Denon exec's thread at AVS Forum)) is pretty much "automatic."

Other things to consider that are not widely mentioned: input limits. I beleive that the Onkyo is limited to video 6 total sources, and the Deonon to 7. Never mind the input connector count. I have no info on the Sony, but I imagine there's a limit there too. Has to do with the size of the assignment matrix.

Hope this helps.]]>Jul 9th 2008 12:32PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/Jul 9th 2008 12:36PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
Gee, I'd like to fix that. Maybe you have later code? Hmmm.]]>Jul 9th 2008 12:38PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
I have the same delay issue you do though... Maybe I need to try upgrading the firmware again (I just bought it a few months ago though, and upgraded at that time). It really is an annoying bug. My old Pioneer Elite 74 automatically turned on if you selected an input from the remote - very handy - but the Denon doesn't do that.

I wouldn't buy a high-end Sony receiver... I haven't read anything about them so I don't think they're that great. They're fine on lower end though (I have a cheap $200 one I bought 8 years ago that's still running fine - but it doesn't do anything special :) )]]>Jul 9th 2008 1:24PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
The Sony amp was alittle too mechanical for my taste, and I felt the denon was too expensive for the feature set you get.]]>Jul 9th 2008 12:52PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/Jul 9th 2008 1:06PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/Jul 9th 2008 1:56PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
The HDMI Spec is free for download at www.HDMI.org. Rob, feel free to quote this "restriction" passage and verse. We'll be waiting.]]>Jul 9th 2008 2:36PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/Jul 9th 2008 1:10PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
But Gennum's (Now Sigma Design's) VXP is at the top with the other king - HQV Realta sxT2-200 and sxT-400.

Denon uses this Realta xsT2 design in their outboard scalers along with some other companies.]]>Jul 9th 2008 2:06PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/Jul 9th 2008 1:51PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/Jul 9th 2008 2:22PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/Jul 9th 2008 2:38PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
Do you have any backup for that assertion?

After hearing the difference between a sony and a Marantz in MY setup a few years ago, I have been wanting a Marantz badly. I couldn't care less about upscaling, but I was waiting for a unit (like the 8002) that would at least convert a component 480p signal to 480p via HDMI so that I could have one cord to the projector.

I'm very interested if your assertion has merit. That may push me toward a Denon, Integra, or Rotel setup instead of the Marantz I was considering.

Thanks.]]>Jul 9th 2008 3:07PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
D&M Holdings owns both companies (Denon and Marantz is what D&M stands for). It's been my experience that the featuresets on similar products are virtually identical between their lines. There is some variance, but I wouldn't doubt they use the same basic amplifier sections.

Take a look at their Blu-ray players - compare features especially. They're identical.

I own a Denon 2808 - nice little piece, especially for the price I paid. It's virtually identical to the SR6001 from Marantz.]]>Jul 9th 2008 4:03PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
I can understand using the same digital setup. It is digital after all. However, I would expect the analog section to be considerably better in the Marantz unit (based on the market position and price difference).

I am a big fan of Marantz, but not particularly of their prices. I'm also a big fan of getting value for my hard earned dollar. That said, I do tend to buy a bit on the high end with my theatre stuff (paradigm, B&W, rotel, marantz, pioneer elite, etc). Still, if I can get the same performance at a cheaper price, I'm all about it.]]>Jul 9th 2008 5:47PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
The reon is way better at upscaling, but it's more expensive and has had supply problems. It's also very hot. Those are the reasons that Denon uses the lower cost, worse performing, old as hell Faroudja chip.

Check out the above mention hometheatermag article.]]>Jul 9th 2008 1:30PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/Jul 9th 2008 1:43PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/Jul 9th 2008 1:43PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/Jul 9th 2008 1:46PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
This is all for the Panasonic TH-58PZ850 when it comes out, and I dont know how good its internal scalers are.]]>Jul 9th 2008 2:21PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/On the A/V side, the SR8002 features HDMI switching (version 1.3a) for up to four sources and two display devices. And there’s format conversion to HDMI with Time Base Correction so even your older video sources will look their best. ]]>Jul 9th 2008 2:37PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/receivers/2753/marantz-sr7002-av-receiver.html

or

http://www.hometheatermag.com/receivers/508mar8002/

and remember the first letter in AVR stands for audio. And no I don't work for Marantz or D&M who currently own Denon and Marantz.]]>Jul 9th 2008 3:25PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
There's also www.marantz.com

and

www.accessories4less.com (authorized reseller)]]>Jul 9th 2008 5:48PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/Jul 9th 2008 3:31PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/Jul 10th 2008 6:13PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/Jul 9th 2008 8:28PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
Which brings me to my original point. I would guess that those in the market for one of these types of AVRs would be similar to me and have relatively new equipment. My TiVo Series 3, Motorola DCH-3416, PS3, XBox 360 and Samsung LN-T4071F were all purchased (save the comcast box - not purchased) within the past 3 years and none need upscaling. So despite buying the Denon primarily for its video capabilities, I'm finding the features and audio quality have made me not regret its purchase. But maybe I'm just wrong...]]>Jul 9th 2008 10:25PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
I am not saying anything bad about all Yamaha receivers, I am just very happy I decided to switch to the Denon and am loving it. The sound seems much richer to me.]]>Jul 10th 2008 12:49AMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
- A DSP dedicated just to the auto-calibration. You can calibrate for 2 channel and 5.1/7.1 differently if you are really into 2-channel.
- The interface is slick, allowing you to actually use the in-depth features of the amp.
- The upscaling chip is Faroudja's top of the line DCDi upscaler.
- Six HDMI!
- You can hook an iPod up to it.

I have one and it sounds fantastic. As far as the DVI goes, DVI is not compatible with a lot of HDMI 1.3 products. HDMI timing needs to be super accurate as the number of features you support goes up. A lot of DVI products just don't have accurate timing. ]]>Jul 10th 2008 1:10AMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/Jul 10th 2008 9:01AMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/Integra 5.8, PS3 work great together with my Samsung FP-T5084... ]]>Jul 10th 2008 8:52AMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/]]>Jul 10th 2008 10:45AMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
This receiver however is still basically the same as many of the newer ones coming out as far as sound reproduction. The Marantz is NOT a rebadged Denon. Overall its higher quality than most Denon's and the sound quality it produces is aimed much more at the audio fanatics than the more mainstream Denon's. (ohh and Denon's don't have THX certification yet Marantz does.. hmmm)

All that being said, after looking at everything currently on the market and the fact that there isn't a decent profile 2.0 blu-ray player on the market yet, I'm holding off.

I think in the next year or so as the HDMI spec has matured a bit more and we see lots of Profile 2.0 players out there, and we will see AVR's that are more mature and polished than the current "lets get something to market so we have this segment covered" that I see in the existing crop of AVR's.

More than anything though with AVR's in the $1k + range if you don't go to a store with a good sound room to hear these, you're doing yourself a disservice. Audio quality from one brand to another (even if its the same holding company) can vary greatly. Remember in the end, its what your ear hears that counts, not a chart, and definitely not someone else's opinion. (although reviews are great for usability and feature comparison)

P.S. make sure you listen to the AVR with some CD/DVD you know very well and make sure you listen to the different AVR's with the same set of speakers.]]>Jul 10th 2008 12:20PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
Not so much the upscaling as the visual/audio syncing and fairly poor home networking integration. Also many of the AVR's don't have HD radio capabilities etc etc.

So wait until next year and I think you'll see AVR's that are mature with many more ports etc etc.]]>Jul 10th 2008 3:24PMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/Jul 11th 2008 1:24AMhttp://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/http://enghddev.weblogsinc.com/2008/07/09/ask-engadget-hd-which-av-receiver-has-the-best-upscaling-chip/
In addition, the Sony is billed as a multizone receiver, but, it will only up-convert, not down-convert, and zone 2 is component video only. So, if you use HDMI sources (and you will), then none of them can be viewed in zone 2 under any condition, because component is considered "down" from HDMI. Nice, eh? More favors from the DRM crowd.

Other than these rather severe glitches, it's a nice receiver, and the six HDMI inputs are helpful, although mine are already all full and I'm in the market for a switch. Be nice to have more, but it sure beats the heck out of the three that are typical for most receivers today.

Good luck.

]]>Jul 11th 2008 2:11PM